Comp #854 Hyd. roller lifter failures?
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Comp #854 Hyd. roller lifter failures?

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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Default Comp #854 Hyd. roller lifter failures?

    Ok, so my engine (454 BBC) has a comp 302 extreme marine Hyd. roller. I have run this all last summer just fine.
    At the end of last season after a hard pass the engine had an immediate "miss" at idle and just off idle.
    I pulled the valve covers and could find nothing out of place. Simple compression check showed little to no variance.
    Tore engine down this winter, checked everything and re-assembled basically.
    Engine was dynoed and nothing out of the ordinary was reported. (I was not there)

    Installed engine and fired. Distinct popping out of right side header. Not random, but steady pop as if a lobe were gone.
    It did seem to clean up if the RPM was held steady at 3000 or more.
    Pulled VC and ran valves. The #8 ex. rocker was adjusted properly BUT had zero resistance against the lifter plunger. (You could depress the plunger with one finger as if no oil at all was in it)

    I cranked the engine with remote starter and had steady oil on all the other 15 rockers but no oil on #8 ex.
    No other rockers were able to be depressed against the lifters and had solid zero lash.

    If this lifter is not pumping up to zero, will that cause the steady popping sound?
    You can hear it very distinctly just cranking the engine over without starting.

    I have read about internal lifter failures with Comp hyd rollers, anybody have any advice?
    Tommy

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    Ok, so my engine (454 BBC) has a comp 302 extreme marine Hyd. roller. I have run this all last summer just fine.
    At the end of last season after a hard pass the engine had an immediate "miss" at idle and just off idle.
    I pulled the valve covers and could find nothing out of place. Simple compression check showed little to no variance.
    Tore engine down this winter, checked everything and re-assembled basically.
    Engine was dynoed and nothing out of the ordinary was reported. (I was not there)

    Installed engine and fired. Distinct popping out of right side header. Not random, but steady pop as if a lobe were gone.
    It did seem to clean up if the RPM was held steady at 3000 or more.
    Pulled VC and ran valves. The #8 ex. rocker was adjusted properly BUT had zero resistance against the lifter plunger. (You could depress the plunger with one finger as if no oil at all was in it)

    I cranked the engine with remote starter and had steady oil on all the other 15 rockers but no oil on #8 ex.
    No other rockers were able to be depressed against the lifters and had solid zero lash.

    If this lifter is not pumping up to zero, will that cause the steady popping sound?
    You can hear it very distinctly just cranking the engine over without starting.

    I have read about internal lifter failures with Comp hyd rollers, anybody have any advice?
    Advice? Yeah, don't run junk lifters. Morels or Cranes are the only way to go for hyd roller. If you need a set, let me know.
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    On marine stuff the Morel 4603 works very well and will give years of service.
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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    On marine stuff the Morel 4603 works very well and will give years of service.
    Thanks Chris.
    Will they be compatible with the comp cam?
    From what I can find on line it looks like the morels are slightly longer wheel to seat than the comp 854 lifters.?
    I run Brodix BB1 heads and Crane gold rockers with Brodix girdles FWIW.

    On a side note, having that ex. valve opening late would cause the popping sound due to releasing cyl. pressure, correct?
    Thanks again!
    Tommy

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    I have replaced several of the comps with morels and customers have been fine with pushrod length. Morels will take some seat pressure and I like to see about 180# on the seat. I have the Morels in stock.
    Chris Straub
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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    It's my understanding that two different manufactures make the #854 lifter for Comp. Each uses a different steel, and are distinctly different. The one company is smaller, and air checks each and every lifter, while the other produces higher quantities, and may only spot check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    Thanks Chris.
    Will they be compatible with the comp cam?
    From what I can find on line it looks like the morels are slightly longer wheel to seat than the comp 854 lifters.?
    I run Brodix BB1 heads and Crane gold rockers with Brodix girdles FWIW.

    On a side note, having that ex. valve opening late would cause the popping sound due to releasing cyl. pressure, correct?
    Thanks again!
    If an exhaust valve doesn't open enough it would be popping back through the intake.
    One a side note, hydralics (sp) are for low ridders and heavy equipment.

    Did you check valve springs?
    Last edited by SoldHondaBoughtHondo; 04-30-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldHondaBoughtHondo View Post
    If an exhaust valve doesn't open enough it would be popping back through the intake.
    One a side note, hydralics (sp) are for low ridders and heavy equipment.

    Did you check valve springs?
    That was funny! Of course how do you feel when a hyd roller 9 second chevelle runs you down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    That was funny! Of course how do you feel when a hyd roller 9 second chevelle runs you down.
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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    That was funny! Of course how do you feel when a hyd roller 9 second chevelle runs you down.
    LOL!!
    probably the same way as when a hyd roller jet boat passes up that pink hydro!!
    J/K!!

    The lifter is the culprit. I pulled it out and when you blow through the side hole all the air comes out the bottom under the wheel somewhere.
    Tommy

    Quote Originally Posted by heavy flow View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Brown View Post
    Obama also possesses extreme intellect.


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    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    LOL!!
    probably the same way as when a hyd roller jet boat passes up that pink hydro!!
    J/K!!

    The lifter is the culprit. I pulled it out and when you blow through the side hole all the air comes out the bottom under the wheel somewhere.
    I want that lifter.
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    Does the below pic have any merit? Don't recall where I got it.

    And below my Morels...odd the box was already opened when I got them ???

    <img src=http://www.performanceboats.com/gallery/data/500/medium/06-30-11_1234.jpg border=0 alt= />

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    gn7
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    Hammertime, the loss of oil pressure in the "unshrouded" lifter has zero to do with the unshrouded roller wheel. I have no idea where you got that pic, but its a terrible way to ID a lifter with an issue. And the lifter that did/does have an oil pressure issue, only really had it in some after market blocks when used with fairly high lift.

    If you look at the hole in the pictured unshrouded lifter, you will see its just ABOVE the band area, and your Morels it is just at top of the band. When the lifter is used in blocks with a very well chamfer at the top of the lifter bore, the hole would be exposed and the lifter pressure. The chamfer at the top if the bore could even cause the band to be exposed and cause a pressure drop. The problem was never with the lifters body design, its was with some blocks.

    The pressure drop was never caused by the unshrouded roller. They pointed out that feature to ID that lifter, which was a terrible way to ID something. It make the whole design look defective, when virtaully every solid lifter made looks the same.

    After looking at those pics, would a solid lifter scare you into thinking that your oil pressure could drop due the design of the lifter shrouding?
    Last edited by gn7; 05-01-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerDown View Post
    Does the below pic have any merit? Don't recall where I got it.

    And below my Morels...odd the box was already opened when I got them ???

    OK...I didn't even read GN's response so if I repeat anything here, forgive me but that "comparison" you have there is simply wrong. They're comparing apples and oranges.
    The "shrouded" lifters are nothing more than OEM replacements with a .700 dia wheel. The "unshrouded" lifter is a retrofit performance roller lifter and has a .750 dia. wheel. You can not (well you can, but it wouldn't be advised) use a .700" wheel on a cam designed for a .750" wheel, which is what most of the after market perfromance roller cams are designed around. OEM cams with their mild profiles are designed for the .700 wheel. All the .842" and .875" aftermarket performance lifters use a .750 wheel and the reason it's "un shrouded" is that you can't fit a .750 wheel in a fully shrouded lifter body.

    Oiling wise, there is absolutely zero difference between the lifters, and the "shrouded" vs. "non-shrouded" has nothing to do with oil. Saying an un-shrouded lifter will cause loss of oil is 100% wrong. Those Morel hyd. roller lifters are capable of well over 7000rpm with the right valve train.
    Last edited by steelcomp; 05-01-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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