anyone using a racepump fuel pump for efi
I need to get a fuel pump for my new setup and would like to run one without a return setup for ease. New setup is a 1200 hp twin turbo efi setup. They show the pump is good to 150 psi. Talked to the owner of racepumps and said it would no problem, but would like to hear realworld info. If its bad, what should I use? Dont want to go electric pump
Dan
Sorry, can't help you but this peaks my interest also.
Wouldn't you think a mechanical pump used for EFI would need a fuel psi dampner and a return ?
A mechanical pump is not all that 'smooth' when it comes to fuel delivery. I also like having a regulator (return style) after the injectors.
I don't know.....thus the interest also.
Sounds like a tuning nightmare
Might provide the pressure but
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#55
I was under the impression you must run the race pump regulator for efi if you do it, but I thought that was a return setup? I'd do it for a N/A deal, but if you're adding a bunch of boost I'd go with one of aeromotive's belt drive pumps with a return, if you don't want electric. Fuel is the one thing I wouldn't cut corners on, and the racepump seems problematic with efi. I know hass had an article on the efi setup they did with the race pump, but it wasn't too crazy on power and N/A if I remember right.
Andrew
I would run their regulator, but it is setup as a deadhead setup, or their other option for the regulator is a bypass one that just has a carb jet to return some fuel to keep from vapor locking. I will probably only run 15 lbs of boost or so.
The Racepump regulators are all dead head type. The do make a
bleed "return" for the boost referenced type, which you would need.
My question with the Racepump EFI setup has always been, where does the pressure come from to start the thing. Even with a check, how long can it hold pressure. And if the engine doesn't start with the fuel under pressure in the lines, where does it get more fuel. I piss harder than a Racepump moves fuel on the starter. So does it require a smaller electric to "prime" the system? Then why bother with the POS.
Great pump for a carb, but I don't see it being used for EFI.
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Originally Posted by 79centurion
dead head and efi, just don't go together if you ask me....and I like trying new stuff! However I don't think I would be enticed by the cheaper option on something like this. Personally I like electric, but for you I'd definitely look for a belt setup and bypass. It ensures stable fuel pressure which you absolutely must have for efi.
Andrew
I agree, dead head is the wrong term. But you have to remember the Racepump is a variable volume pump, and it doesn't require a return. In fact they tell you NOT to use a normal return type even with carbs. The "bleed type" is only used on the boost referenced for some reason, and on alky applications.
I still have no idea how you use ANY mechanical pump with ANY FI system. Where does the starting fuel come from?
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that's a great point! could be cranking for quite a while to get it to fire, and even worse it would make for very inconsistent starting qualities, which is the opposite of how efi should be.
Andrew
And they are the very worse fuel movers on the starter. They are like a 2 stroke MC engine. They move a ton of fuel once they are up and running. 2000 rpm and they will flow like a dam. But on the starter they don't move fuel worth a shit, and almost no pressure. Ot cranking speed they can move fuel against any restriction. And EFI injectors are a definite restriction, and thrive on pressure or they just dripple
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They offer a check valve and a small electric pump to prime it. i dont want to run electric pump since most of the big electric pumps dont hold up to continous duty. This is for a lake boat. Its either the racepump, or go aeromotive belt drive. Either way I am sure i will have starting problems without some sort of electric to prime it.
I ran an aeromotive efi 700 fuel pump in 2 different boats over the coarse of 5 years. Had zero issues with it, and it's sitting on a shelf waiting to be used in some other project. It came out of the boat because I have an aeromotive pro series electric that replaced it to feed the new procharged BBC. Currently I'm not running a fuel pump module but have considered running a duty cycle fuel pump module, but mainly for alternator life. (I've had a tough time with alternators since running efi in my boat, but I think the 100amp and dual batteries will do the trick)
I saw a guy running an A1000 that had over 100,000 miles of continuous operation (no module) and zero issues. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single person running an aeromotive electric efi pump that has had any fuel issues that weren't related to wiring, and/or installer error. I can't think of a legitimate failed aeromotive electric efi pump. Set it up right (using a relay to control it, and the use of short thick wires with a dedicated fuse and good ground) and you will have zero issues.
Lots and lots of people running electric with zero issues, but marine people for some reason seem to be kinda stupid when it comes to wiring an electric pump and everyone blames their thr pump after they ran a 14 gauge wire from the battery to the key then back to the pump and expected it to last!!! Not a chance!!
You could also run 2 smaller electrics in parallel...I would think a dual A1000 setup would work quite well. In fact that's what Outlaw runs. Tons of good used A1000s out there for cheap. Less than 500 for both I'm sure.
Andrew
Bob hit the nail on the head.
The mechanical pumps are not going to make any pressure cranking.
I have a Aeromotive cam drive main pump and a cheap in tank electric that I run with a button on the dash to put pressure in the fuel rails to start it.
Then it starts right up in less than 2 revolutions.
You can see me hit the electric fuel pump button to the left of the steering wheel in this video,
VID00052.mp4 video by Mark11530 - Photobucket
The electric pump puts 45# of pressure in the fuel rails instantly.
IMO for a big HP application I would not use an electric pump for the main one.
Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat
http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MAH05771.mp4
None of the mech. pumps will move fuel while cranking so youd need a setup like Mark described. With that being said, I have tried every brand of elec. pump I could get my hands on. Mounted low, vertical, horizonal, large supply lines, smaller lines. Changed the dip tubes in the tanks to larger size. Had Imco build me custom tanks with trap doors to keep fuel at the pickups. Had relays with #10 wire and only about 2ft from the battery running the pumps. Nothing helped. When you make a pass that pulls you to 120 or so it takes maybe 10 sec of deceleration to get slowed down and no matter what the fuel pickup is going to get a gulp of air. With an elect. setup with a return whats going to happen to the return when the pump gets an air bubble? Thats right, its going to shut off because its asking for more pressure. The pump cant get rid of the airlock because the return is not flowing. Another issue is that the electrics are designed to be mounted below the fuel cell (in a drag car)and to be gravity fed a good supply of fuel. They dont draw fuel from the top of a tank with diptubes worth a damn. And while we're on the subject of diptubes, you need to have them in your boat. Dont add outlets to the bottom of the tank! If you had a fitting or hose split it will empty the entire contents of the tank into the bottom of your boat.
Mechanical pumps were designed to mount to the engine and to DRAW fuel from the rear of a car so they handle the duty of the diptube arrangment a little better.
Since I've went mechanical I havent airlocked once. Back when I was trying to run the elect. setups I had to keep a cresent in the boat and EVERY time I made a pass I'd have to shut down and walk to the back of the boat and bleed the POS fuel pump. Now I've heard all the banter for yrs with everyone saying "hell, I've ran'em for yrs with no problems" . I say, maybe its because your not going fast enough for it to be a problem. And the OP may be going with a lake cruiser that can get away with one.
The RacePump is a great system. I use it on my 555cid twin turbocharged engine and have logs to prove that the fuel pressure is very smooth and it follows the boost curve beautifully. When you plumb it make sure you have large diptubes, 10an to the system one fuel filter that Howard suggests, then 10an to the pump, and 8an to the reg. You wont have a problem. Good luck, Hass
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