For you guys worrying about oil pressure
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For you guys worrying about oil pressure

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    Senior Member Hass828's Avatar
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    Default For you guys worrying about oil pressure

    Here is a secondary electric pump that comes on when you turn the key on and continues to run until the main engine oil pump satisfies the pressure switch that you plumb into the system. the switch is adjustable and the pump puts out 55psi. Anytime that your oil pressure drops below 60psi (or what ever you have the switch set to) the pump will come on and protect your engine. I had one of these on my engine to prelube before startup and it was on a timer so it would continue to run for three min. to protect my turbos. The only reason I took it off was to shed some weight from the boat. I still bolt it on temporarily to prelube any time the engine sets for any length of time. This pump weighs 3lbs. Also this deal pumps from the drain plug access so when you decide to change the oil just hook a line from the pump to a catch can and it will pump the pan out in a few sec.
    And costs $294 , the switch is another $70. If its dependable enough for an airplane it should be fine for a boat.
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    Last edited by Hass828; 01-21-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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    northern member Canuc's Avatar
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    i think the point being discussed is oil control so that your pick-up has oil , add another pump won't help if it doesn't have oil on the pick-up .
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 If your ran a cammer your odds of finishing WERE ZERO.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuc View Post
    i think the point being discussed is oil control so that your pick-up has oil , add another pump won't help if it doesn't have oil on the pick-up .
    You bring up an excellent point Canuc. It might help with shut downs on flywheel foward boats if the pickup is toward the front of the pan. It would be of much use if the oil is beat to hell, or any other reason the pressure is falling. I still look at the vid of Marks boat that Hass posted and ask why the pressure was starting to fall before he lifted. Would a secondary pump help. I doubt it.
    Hass PM'd me with that setup for the dead engine dry starts, and in that case it is could be very usefull. He was using it to prelube and more importantly post lube his turbos. Again, a very usefull device for that application.
    An Accumulator will supply oil while the pickup is uncovered, but as Fiat posted, its not always enough oil to keep it from falling after the accumulator runs dry on a hard de-accel. I Never had a issue with the accumulator, but then once I got a handle on the oil control I never had a issue with the pressure going away. It is still a viable device for pre lubing a dead engine, which is what I really used it for.
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    Senior Member mdsheppie's Avatar
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    oh boy more wires....

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdsheppie View Post
    oh boy more wires....
    typical mag guy. I only have one wire in my boat and thats one too many.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    You bring up an excellent point Canuc. It might help with shut downs on flywheel foward boats if the pickup is toward the front of the pan. It would be of much use if the oil is beat to hell, or any other reason the pressure is falling. I still look at the vid of Marks boat that Hass posted and ask why the pressure was starting to fall before he lifted. Would a secondary pump help. I doubt it.
    Hass PM'd me with that setup for the dead engine dry starts, and in that case it is could be very usefull. He was using it to prelube and more importantly post lube his turbos. Again, a very usefull device for that application.
    An Accumulator will supply oil while the pickup is uncovered, but as Fiat posted, its not always enough oil to keep it from falling after the accumulator runs dry on a hard de-accel. I Never had a issue with the accumulator, but then once I got a handle on the oil control I never had a issue with the pressure going away. It is still a viable device for pre lubing a dead engine, which is what I really used it for.
    Well I don't know how much is right or wrong....all I have is what my theory was about the accusump.
    I had 3 qts of oil...pressurized in a bladder connected to the main galleys of the motor. Theory being that this bladder would empty into the main galley...thereby pressurizing the galley so oil would flow to the mains while the oil pump "caught up". What really happened I believe was....the pump dried up at the pickup....the bladder emptied but took the least path of resistance...which would be head right back to that "empty" oil pump that was pumping air. Yet that "air" it was pumping was "some" resistance so the galley did get pressurized some.
    Bottom line was the accusump dumped real quick.
    Now comes problem #2.
    The oil pump.....now that somehow the pickup has gotten covered again....has to fill the damn accusump because the accusump is acting like a huge oil galley. So basically I am "starving" my engine of oil which was what I set out to cure.

    As far as using it for a priming device....well....that bugged me too. I had to "rob" my oiling system per say to refill it. But least that was basically at idle.

    And on Marks deal...I'd just have to guess the pump pickup is uncovered...maybe even partially to where it is sucking air and then as he gets out of it then she is uncovered to the point she is heading for 0. There is such a thing as pump cavitation also. Maybe that is what we are seeing also.
    Last edited by Fiat48; 01-21-2012 at 11:15 PM.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    Well I don't know how much is right or wrong....all I have is what my theory was about the accusump.
    I had 3 qts of oil...pressurized in a bladder connected to the main galleys of the motor. Theory being that this bladder would empty into the main galley...thereby pressurizing the galley so oil would flow to the mains while the oil pump "caught up". What really happened I believe was....the pump dried up at the pickup....the bladder emptied but took the least path of resistance...which would be head right back to that "empty" oil pump that was pumping air. Yet that "air" it was pumping was "some" resistance so the galley did get pressurized some.
    Bottom line was the accusump dumped real quick.
    Now comes problem #2.
    The oil pump.....now that somehow the pickup has gotten covered again....has to fill the damn accusump because the accusump is acting like a huge oil galley. So basically I am "starving" my engine of oil which was what I set out to cure.

    As far as using it for a priming device....well....that bugged me too. I had to "rob" my oiling system per say to refill it. But least that was basically at idle.
    I handled that with 2 things. First the accumulator was plumbed to the front of the main oil gallery in hopes that it would do a better job of oiling the mains before it went out the pump. Technically, spinning pump should allow too awfully much oil past it. And we were opening the accumulator with the engine off. I always seemed to have pressure in the main gallery which is where the light switch was screwed into(at the number 4 main). I will say this though. A running engine consumes oil faster than a dead engine.
    I also had a one way check that let the oil free flow out but had a small orfice when the accumulator went to refill. It took a good 30 to 40 seconds to refill the thing back. It didn't take much more than a set of valve cover spring oilers if that.
    But like I said, it was there more for a dry start pre lube than a recovery device. Which the single biggest reason I slow down the refill so much. I really did care how long it took to refill, just so long as it did steal oil pressure from the engine once it started.
    Last edited by gn7; 01-21-2012 at 11:22 PM.
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    Very good idea on the restrictor to fill. Excellent.
    I plumbed the front and everywhere else possible. Prolly the "best" (if there was a best) was that flapper check valve deal I built into the GM oil cooler adapter. I think I still have the damn thing.
    But it never cured the issue.

    Nobody wants to hear it.....I fought it for years....but dry sump solves all of it. I had 75 lbs of oil pressure in any position...except I never checked it upside down. 3 stage is all you need. External pump would work too but they want an arm and a leg for them...so might as well dry sump it. I know....$$$$$.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post

    Nobody wants to hear it.....I fought it for years....but dry sump solves all of it. I had 75 lbs of oil pressure in any position...except I never checked it upside down. 3 stage is all you need. External pump would work too but they want an arm and a leg for them...so might as well dry sump it. I know....$$$$$.
    No different than the issue with motor oil, filter flow, or crank clearances. Sometimes its like Oh well!
    Last edited by gn7; 01-21-2012 at 11:36 PM.
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    Senior Member mdsheppie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    Here is a secondary electric pump that comes on when you turn the key on and continues to run until the main engine oil pump satisfies the pressure switch that you plumb into the system. the switch is adjustable and the pump puts out 55psi. Anytime that your oil pressure drops below 60psi (or what ever you have the switch set to) the pump will come on and protect your engine. I had one of these on my engine to prelube before startup and it was on a timer so it would continue to run for three min. to protect my turbos. The only reason I took it off was to shed some weight from the boat. I still bolt it on temporarily to prelube any time the engine sets for any length of time. This pump weighs 3lbs. Also this deal pumps from the drain plug access so when you decide to change the oil just hook a line from the pump to a catch can and it will pump the pan out in a few sec.
    And costs $294 , the switch is another $70. If its dependable enough for an airplane it should be fine for a boat.
    INFINITY Aerospace: Home Page www.InfinityAerospace.com, Infinity 1, landing gear, stick grips
    Part#GP301-12 might be a good thing for the spring start up at least

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  12. #11
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdsheppie View Post
    Part#GP301-12 might be a good thing for the spring start up at least
    It would good for any start up. The amount of wear for normal dry starts is way more than most people thing. The difference between a 2 hour sit and a 2 month sit is almost nothing. The oil that is going to leave the bearings with the oil how takes place in seconds, and it doesn't continue to drain away for days. I kind of chuckle when I hear people say that if you going to fire off a new engine right away that plain oil is fine for assembly. You only need assembly lube for engine that will be in storage for a while. I'd rather assemble an engine with Vasaline than oil on the bearings
    Last edited by gn7; 01-22-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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    So with the accusump...what do you do about the fact that until it refills, you suddenly have 3 more quarts of oil in the engine than you're supposed to?
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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    So with the accusump...what do you do about the fact that until it refills, you suddenly have 3 more quarts of oil in the engine than you're supposed to?
    You deal with it! Its the trade off for a tosted engine. Its a temporary condition. In the drags deal its no biggie because they are shut down anyways, and it should be back in the can by the time they get to shore.

    But there is a twist to this in a running circle boat or lake boat that does need attention. When you install one, you pre charge the air side with roughly 5 lbs of air. When the oil enters it pushes the floating piston until the air reaches the same pressure as the oil pressure and is equalized, it stop entering the can. Now think what happens if you do this with a cold engine. Know of any engine that maintains the same oil pressure hot as it does cold? So some of the oil that was in the can is now in the engine. This invaribly leads to foamed oil, and even lower pressure. Then more oil from the can. Its nothing for 2 quarts to be in the engine when it gets warm. SOOOO, the only thing you can do is fill the can when the engine is warm which means you will probably only have 2 maybe 2 1/2 quarts in it. All you have to do is load the can the first time out with the engine fully warmed up. Like HOT. It might mean that the pan is a little low when cold because more oil will be in the can while the pressure is high, but it will go to the right level once it is hot.
    Learned this one the hard way because nothing ever comes easy.
    Last edited by gn7; 01-22-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    You deal with it! Its the trade off for a tosted engine. Its a temporary condition. In the drags deal its no biggie because they are shut down anyways, and it should be back in the can by the time they get to shore.

    But there is a twist to this in a running circle boat or lake boat that does need attention. When you install one, you pre charge the air side with roughly 5 lbs of air. When the oil enters it pushes the floating piston until the air reaches the same pressure as the oil pressure and is equalized, it stop entering the can. Now think what happens if you do this with a cold engine. Know of any engine that maintains the same oil pressure hot as it does cold? So some of the oil that was in the can is now in the engine. This invaribly leads to foamed oil, and even lower pressure. Then more oil from the can. Its nothing for 2 quarts to be in the engine when it gets warm. SOOOO, the only thing you can do is fill the can when the engine is warm which means you will probably only have 2 maybe 2 1/2 quarts in it. All you have to do is load the can the first time out with the engine fully warmed up. Like HOT. It might mean that the pan is a little low when cold because more oil will be in the can while the pressure is high, but it will go to the right level once it is hot.
    Learned this one the hard way because nothing ever comes easy.
    You are making the pump setup sound better all the time.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
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