What r some opinions about which carb is better of the same 750cfm carb??
What r some opinions about which carb is better of the same 750cfm carb??
One is made by one of the oldest most reputable carb manufactures in the world, the other is made by some company that went into bankruptcy due in part to horrible customers service. You guess which is which, and if you want to buy a carb made by a company that no longer exists.
Looooong before I would buy a BG, I would buy a ProSystems
Last edited by gn7; 02-13-2012 at 08:00 PM.
well i just picked up a couple and want to no more about them..like are jets available,gaskets,or parts..and can they stay in tune with each other?
thanks for the heads up gn7
I bought a New 850 Marine Demon, down leg, from Jegs in Nov '10 for a new 540 Dart NA motor going into my lake boat. Put the motor on the dyno in mid Feb and it was too rich in the low RPMs and leaned out at 5000. Spent 1/2 the day screwing with jets and air bleeds before calling the experts. The boosters were too small so jets made no difference and only BG could modify the boosters as they were propriority to Demon carbs. We called Demon and it was the very day they shut the doors and filed bankruptcy so too bad customer. The dyno had a 750 Holley on the shelf and we threw that on and picked up 60HP. Called Jegs and they took it back and shipped a new 850 Holley Marine in 3 days Yea Jegs , they know customer service. I gave the new 850 Holley to the dyno and they put it on another customers motor and dialed it in. Interesting change, the Holley came with 86 jets in the primarys and 96's in the secondaries. The Holley has a secondary power valve so the carb was extremely fat in high RPM's. They changed the jets to 86 on all 4 corners and it was right on through the entire range. so much for perfect out of the box.
Demons look great and I like the changes they made v/s old style Holleys but if they lean your motor out it just aint worth it. The dyo shop likes Quick Fuel that has similar features to the Demon but no marine version
Your right about the out of box jetting on Holley marine carbs, and I don't get the idea behind the super rich seconday and a power valve to boot. Glad to hear you were able to return the BG. Some weren't so lucky.
Hopefully he is able to keep his doors open this time around. Lot of people out there have BGs that are not at all freindly to tuning and repair when his doors are closed. Now he has a new modernized AFB "AVS" carb out to compete with the Edelbrock AVS.
i've been running 2 mighty 850s for 10 years. the first 2 years, chased a very slight "lean" acceleration delay at 3200rpm (when air was good, it was worse; when air was bad, it was tolerable). hp wise, they were great. just to see if it made a difference, we put 2 950 holleys on it one weekend, and they performed exactly the same as the bg's.
after 2 years of chasing it and trying everything, a friend connected me with the head tech guy at bg (not customer service, went around that). after spending a ton of time researching and testing everything i could, a half hour with him was all it took to understand what needed to be done. later model mighty's make it a lot easier.
demons cannot be tuned the same way you would tune a holley. it takes a little different approach. main jetting is pretty straightforward, no different than what someone would do with a holley. it's getting the thing to idle correctly, and accelerate correctly is a bit different. with data, i can see things in the acceleration ramp rate that i'd never feel or see on a replay tach. for what i do, it's critical to have the engine accelerate from idle to wherever at the same rate every time, and that the ramp is a straight line. and my demons have done that perfectly for 8 seasons, no matter what the weather conditions are. not saying at all that the holley's wouldn't have worked out just as well, but it seems like no matter what it is, it'll take some fine tuning to get it exactly right. some guys want to take their carbs to someone else, and there's nothing wrong with that. but i'd rather do it myself so i know why it's doing what it's doing.
Good post Bob. There is nothing wrong with the carbs themselves, its always been the support that was lacking, along with the attitude that YOU were the problem, not the carb.
I will say one thing for the man, he has cool ideas what a carb should look like. I bet he sells a million of these to the street rod guys. Hopefully he learned what at least one of the companies failings was, because the quality of the carbs themselves wasn't the issue.
gn, that's pretty crazy... i remember an afb i had on a dodge about 40 years ago. had that thing apart about 6 times. could never spend the time to figure out how to get it just a tad leaner when the secondary's opened up. but when those secondary's opened up, you knew it. would be interesting to know how this thing is put together...
from what i can remember, bg had some pretty thorough instructions they sent with the carbs. even a video. if a person really understood and followed the instructions to the letter, the carb -should- have worked ok. but there's always a tendency to do something that deviates from those instructions, and it would take a person down the wrong path. the instructions could have gotten a bit deeper into why some things had to be done a certain way, but they didn't. the newer demons, with the addition of the idle air screw, made things a lot easier....
i hope he makes a good comeback. like you say, he does know what looks good. and some of the things they included on those old carbs were really nice.
Barry Grant is not making a comeback under his own name, BG Fuel Systems, or Demon carbs names. Hell he doesn't even own the rights to his name as far as I know. The company that owns Holley purchased the assets of BG and has relaunched the line of carbs. So I'd wager that product support is about the same for eithe brand of carb at this point.
Finn, if thats true, that has to be the biggest kick to his nut sack ever. The very company he tried to take on, and if I may say, helped make him till he bit the hand, ends up with his company and the rights to the names. Thats almost priceless! Karma isn't dead.
Make me wonder though, it the new AVS carb wasn't partially complete mold and tooling wise. There is NOBODY inside the Holley company that could ever come up with the idea, let alone the actual look of that thing unless they were taking some good hallucinogen. Just nobody that creative in the company. Place is almost monkey see monkey do. They only make a HP an Ultra HP because everbodyelse forced them to step up or die!
Still, I have no regrets taking off his regulator and tossing it in the trash and installing the big 4 port Holley after taking to those assholes. The regulator was fine, simply needed a diaphram. No dice, no way, send it in. Price, after shipping both ways, 2 cents cheaper than a new one. SCREW YOU! Last product I ever bought, and never recommended them again. Hopefully WHO EVER is runnign the place, makes some changes.
thanks for the facts!
It is interesting about how the internet has made changes in the way companies must operate. Before the internet, it use to be that for every happy customer, they might tell three others, but if as a customer you are unhappy, you would likely tell ten or more others. TODAY, if you are an unhappy customer, you might tell 1,000 others.
If you remeber the days before the internet, it is starting to show your age.