C12 vs. VP113
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C12 vs. VP113

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    Member Flat Hall'N PS929's Avatar
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    Default C12 vs. VP113

    Anybody have any experience running these two? Advantages one to the other? Thanks in advance!

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Hall'N PS929 View Post
    Anybody have any experience running these two? Advantages one to the other? Thanks in advance!
    VP 113 is oxygenated if that means anything to you.

    Now, if you should ever find yourself able to get your hands on some of this, give me a PM


    LINK: VP PSX
    Last edited by gn7; 03-05-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Hall'N PS929 View Post
    Anybody have any experience running these two? Advantages one to the other? Thanks in advance!
    VP C-12 is a good solid racing fuel. It has been around a long time and is the single most popular fuel I have sold. It is very stable, .717 specific gravity and 108 on the motor octane with a research number 112+ range. The fuel is leaded with 4.23 grams of lead per gallon and can be run in engines close to 15:1 compression ratio. Works really well in Big Blocks at the 12 to 13:1 ratio. Good power and controlled burn.

    VP 113 is an oxygenated fuel. It is a different "class" of fuel as C-12. It is however also leaded and very stable with a specific gravity of .718. The motor octane is actually one point higher than C-12 at 109 and the research octane jumps way up there at 118. When running oxygenated fuels it is reccomended to run the jet size 4 to 6 numbers larger. When you do this, you actually increase the amount of fuel in the chamber, which as a result there is more lead in the chamber with the increased volume that assist in detonation resistance, etc. Two real plusses on the product 1) the fuel will make a little more power than C-12 and 2) with the oxygenation, the engine will operate more consistently from pass to pass even with weather changes. If you are a bracket racer you will love it. I have a customer with a decent 427 BBC in his dragster who is a good bracket racer. A few months back, he won a large NHRA bracket race. The race began about 10 in the morning and was over close to midnight. The next day he was reviewing his time slips and was suprised to discover that he had NOT changed his dial the whole day.... which is unheard of.

    Basically, if you are class restricted to non-oxygenated fuels the C-12 is a very good choice for most engines. If you are not restricted by rules, I kind of consider the 113 as the oxygenated version of the C-12. 113 is a great choice.

    Other fuels are available for higher effort engines and the Q-16 is the oxygenated version of the higher octane fuel and compares to non-oxygen fuels like C-15 & C-16.

    Hope this helps.
    Gear
    Last edited by Gearhead; 03-05-2012 at 07:34 PM.

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    Senior Member vmaxed's Avatar
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    Default The money

    Gear how much is the VP C-12 vs VP110?
    Last edited by vmaxed; 03-05-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaxed View Post
    Gear how much is the VP C-12 vs VP110?
    Gee... you had to ask. IMO, the VP 110 is a good performance fuel comparing with Turbo Blue, etc...., but C-12 is a true baseline racing fuel. About $80 per drum difference in price. Since this thread originated with the C-12 and 113 questions, those two are about the same price.

    Gear

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Now, if you should ever find yourself able to get your hands on some of this, give me a PM


    VP PSX[/URL]
    I wonder how this fuel compares in power to VP C-44, which was outlawed by NHRA a number of years ago?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    I wonder how this fuel compares in power to VP C-44, which was outlawed by NHRA a number of years ago?
    that stuff is sick. i got a lung full of the fumes once, nothing compares, havent breathed the same since. Did pick up a couple tenths in the 1/4 with it though

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by white tortilla View Post
    that stuff is sick. i got a lung full of the fumes once, nothing compares, havent breathed the same since. Did pick up a couple tenths in the 1/4 with it though
    You can breath right to this day because your lungs still remember. It you think about it, at the time you could take a second breath. Its like yur lungs went on strike, and punished you for inhaling that, and refused to take in any more air for at least 30 seconds. Its as if you lungs know "this shit can kill you dumbass"
    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    I wonder how this fuel compares in power to VP C-44, which was outlawed by NHRA a number of years ago?
    I a word, NO! Its not the same. This stuff requires 12-14 jets sizes. In fact, Holley main fuel channels will not flow enough fuel to handle the stuff, and neither will the boosters. Not quite E85 territory flow wise, but damn close, with way more heat energy. Think Q16 on steroids

    I am probably already telling too much for this thread, but what the hell, you're never going to get your hands on any, and even if you did, you would think you were buying top quality uncut coke.

    LINK: VP PSX-AU
    Last edited by gn7; 03-06-2012 at 12:00 AM.
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    Thanks for all the great feedback! My main concern is getting the right fuel for the compression that I run is 15:1. I've heard that c12 is good but may be cutting it close. I've got a couple of buddies that have been using the c12 and have only good things to say. I am runnnig at 7500 rpm with 15:1....thoughts on that combo and C12?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Hall'N PS929 View Post
    Thanks for all the great feedback! My main concern is getting the right fuel for the compression that I run is 15:1. I've heard that c12 is good but may be cutting it close. I've got a couple of buddies that have been using the c12 and have only good things to say. I am runnnig at 7500 rpm with 15:1....thoughts on that combo and C12?
    I would run C-14 +

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    gn7
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    I'd put it on VP M5, add another point of compression and stop worrying about. IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Hall'N PS929 View Post
    Thanks for all the great feedback! My main concern is getting the right fuel for the compression that I run is 15:1. I've heard that c12 is good but may be cutting it close. I've got a couple of buddies that have been using the c12 and have only good things to say. I am runnnig at 7500 rpm with 15:1....thoughts on that combo and C12?
    For me, the C-12 is cutting it too close for a true 15:1 big block engine. That should be a lot of cylinder pressure which may be difficult to control the burn rate. What size is the engine? Any idea the cylinder pressure? Any inertia ram effect (tunnel ram), etc? Any use of nitrous?

    Octane itself primarily controls or slows the burn rate down on the fuel. Too much octane can slow you down. As one approaches 14:1 and higher on a big block, I move towards the C-14. As one creeps into the 15:1 and higher range I would consider C-14+ (which is C-14 with two additional grams of lead), C-15 (which is a 50/50 mix of C-14 & C-16 and C-16 (good baseline nitrous fuel unless you run multiple fogger stages). The C-14, C-14+ & C-15 are good normally aspirated fuels. The C-16 seems to be more preferable with high boost turbos, blowers and nitrous. These fuels also jump up a tier in pricing from the C-12. About $150 per drum. Although higher, it is much cheaper than a detonated engine.

    With 15:1 in the big block, you are also entering the realm of Q-16, an oxygenated fuel that can boost you about 30HP and in the same cost level as the 14, 15, 16 fuels.

    Gear

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    I'd put it on VP M5, add another point of compression and stop worrying about. IMO
    I have a nice pair of Alky Dominators that are fresh if anyone really wanted to run the M5, which is a power adder version update of the M1 methanol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    For me, the C-12 is cutting it too close for a true 15:1 big block engine. That should be a lot of cylinder pressure which may be difficult to control the burn rate. What size is the engine? Any idea the cylinder pressure? Any inertia ram effect (tunnel ram), etc? Any use of nitrous?

    Octane itself primarily controls or slows the burn rate down on the fuel. Too much octane can slow you down. As one approaches 14:1 and higher on a big block, I move towards the C-14. As one creeps into the 15:1 and higher range I would consider C-14+ (which is C-14 with two additional grams of lead), C-15 (which is a 50/50 mix of C-14 & C-16 and C-16 (good baseline nitrous fuel unless you run multiple fogger stages). The C-14, C-14+ & C-15 are good normally aspirated fuels. The C-16 seems to be more preferable with high boost turbos, blowers and nitrous. These fuels also jump up a tier in pricing from the C-12. About $150 per drum. Although higher, it is much cheaper than a detonated engine.

    With 15:1 in the big block, you are also entering the realm of Q-16, an oxygenated fuel that can boost you about 30HP and in the same cost level as the 14, 15, 16 fuels.

    Gear
    Engine is 481 with tunnel ram. I am un certain of cylinder pressure but could take a reading in a couple of weeks. I am not running an nitrous on this set up.

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