Shoe...lets talk loaders

**cyclone** · 12-19-2007, 05:10 PM

do the ramps provide any lift?

**ULTRA 23** · 12-19-2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone

do the ramps provide any lift?

Add some NOS and you will get all the lift you need.

**greg shoemaker** · 12-19-2007, 05:38 PM

Cyclone the answer is yes

**danhercules** · 12-19-2007, 08:24 PM

You can get the same effect with a duct too, right? Safe shutdown too I hear.

**cyclone** · 12-19-2007, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by danhercules

You can get the same effect with a duct too, right? Safe shutdown too I hear.

HA HA HA. how's the new boat?

**cyclone** · 12-19-2007, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by ULTRA 23

Originally Posted by cyclone

do the ramps provide any lift?

Add some NOS and you will get all the lift you need.

workin' on it. patience, grasshoppa.

**cyclone** · 12-19-2007, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by greg shoemaker

Cyclone the answer is yes

is the lift diminshed if you cut the ramps back?

**Shotgun19** · 12-19-2007, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by danhercules

You can get the same effect with a duct too, right? Safe shutdown too I hear.

You are not starting that thread here to are you?

**sleekcrafter** · 12-20-2007, 04:30 PM

Thats Dan Hurcules, he could fart in church and it would be funny! No ones ran a duct yet, that can give data, from a data logger.

**greg shoemaker** · 12-20-2007, 05:13 PM

Mike, Do you want to load your pump with shoe and keel or do you want load your pump with the grate and shoe ?

**sanger rat** · 12-20-2007, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by greg shoemaker

Mike, Do you want to load your pump with shoe and keel or do you want load your pump with the grate and shoe ?

What are the Pro's and Con's of loading it either way?

**cyclone** · 12-21-2007, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by greg shoemaker

Mike, Do you want to load your pump with shoe and keel or do you want load your pump with the grate and shoe ?

im inclined to say loading with the keel would be optimal and getting rid of the loader altogether would be great.

right now my keel is doing the job and the loader ramps are cut back far enough that i dont think they are scooping water, rather re-directing it. But i could use lift at the back of the boat so if the ramps are proving lift then maybe continuing to cut the ramps back is counterproductive.

i dont know. i'll just keep testing and see how she runs. i wish i had about 9 loaders to try! lol

**greg shoemaker** · 12-21-2007, 05:49 AM

Mike, Back in the old days the general consesus was that a lot of shoe and a low loading grate was a good combinination for a rough water setup. As the drags became popular we found that a higher loading grate with less shoe gave us more nose lift and faster speeds. This was how we approached the setups in the early days of the tunnels as time moved on and the power went up it was discovered that less grate , a better keel entry and a good shoe combination was the hot ticket. As it turns out I;m now finding that this still remains ture but now we have a lot more power and boats that are running speeds a half track that we were running on a full pass. Now we have a whole different set of problems . Speeds that are approaching 135 to 140 mph. With an air entrapment hull this is making the contol of the boat a lot more difficult . This winter Old Skool is doing a lot of talking and discussing on how we are going to approach this new set of challenges. We have put our first boat in the mold and should be out today with some of these changes. The second boat will go in the mold right after that and this boat will have some extensive changes that we will be testing this up coming year.Hope everyone has Merry Xmas and a good New Year.

**1/4 Miler** · 12-21-2007, 07:24 AM

We're now consistiently running the 1/4 in the 135 to 140 mph range on any track we run. Next year, when we come out to 'Play', we expect to be at the upper end of that range, if not slightly higher. Since we've started to find the 'Sweet Setup', we've had no handling problems on the big end and the boat has very stable and safe. Also, we've been able to accomplish what few other jets have been able to accomplish: We have the boat accelerating significantly past the 1/8, all the way through the traps even though we are still getting too much water in on the big end.

I believe the reason we've been able to achieve this is we've focused on shaping the keel, particularily in the last 9 to 12 inches of the water enrty area, so as to maximize the amount of water directed into the hole and relying on both the loader and shoe to catch and direct the water up the suction piece, to the face of the impeller. Our next step in fine tuning our setup is to optimally minimize both the depth of the loader stingers and shoe so as to have minimal drag.

Note that we are running the boat as flat, nose down, as we can given our pickle depths. To do this we are using appropriate (for our hull) ride plat and nozzle angles. The ride plate and nozzle angles we use also affect the amount of lift of the boat and air realease we get.

Having said the above, I believe the most critical one thing in terms of getting water into the hole is the shape of the total suction entry area. Of course, the proper hardware setup to take advantage of the shape of the rear of the keel is also critical.

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Shoe...lets talk loaders

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