Thread:

Are these bowl lubrication ports?

Originally Posted by Bonzen

Well I blew it out with a can of compressed air, nothing but air came out the opposite hole. So I dumped about a half quart of Lucas oil 80w/90 gear oil in it and it still didn't puke out the opposite hole. The weird thing is that pretty much right off the bat it almost did, and I thought I was topped off (checked it with a q-tip) but then I added more and it never topped off and the level actually went down on the q-tip dipstick. Doesn't make sence. So idk, maybe the seal is leaking. Where does it leak to? I cant see any visible oil leaks anywhere on the entire pump drive system, or any residue even. And Ive been running this thing for almost 2 seasons before I even knew I was supposed to check the oil level and it runs great.

Sounds like its leaking into the bowl internally (takes alot of oil to manifest as an external leak) likely via a bad. fouled or displaced seal, or scored shaft etc , not a big stretch to simply pull the bowl , inspect and fix it correctly Tom

Originally Posted by Bonzen

What kind of damage are we talking about here if the bowl seal is bad? I have to assume it's been bad/dry of oil for many river trips now. The previous owner who sold it to me had the whole pump system gone through and blueprinted by R&D Marine in Anaheim right before he sold me the boat, (about 2 years ago) so I have to assume the seal was replaced then.

Most likely something simple like monofiliment line or similar , seals are inexpensive , you'll need a bowl gasket , bowl seal and some silicone calking

Originally Posted by Bonzen

What kind of damage are we talking about here if the bowl seal is bad? I have to assume it's been bad/dry of oil for many river trips now. The previous owner who sold it to me had the whole pump system gone through and blueprinted by R&D Marine in Anaheim right before he sold me the boat, (about 2 years ago) so I have to assume the seal was replaced then.

It's not a huge deal, but can lead to other things.

See the end of the shaft in this pic, where it looks sort of rusted? That's where it rides in the bushing that is pressed into the bowl, with a seal isolating the bushing from the water, ideally. (I don't have a pic of the bowl with the bushing and seal in it. Please ignore the destroyed impeller in this pic!)

All the oil does is lube the end of the shaft at the bushing, the bushing is a tail support for the rotating shaft.
If it held oil when you squirted it in, you COULD run it for a day, then try again. If you find that no oil at all is left, the seal is probably shot.
If it is milky, but still has some oil there, the seal is going away.
I check mine before every trip, and it usually has a little bit of "milk" in it, but cleans up very fast, like a single quart of lube lasts me all summer.
Bear in mind that although it is designed to hold oil, some people do use grease, and some do not run the seal, and just let the water do the job of lubricating. I ran my first jet years ago for 3 years without ever knowing about those oil plugs, and in fact used shop air to blow the water out for winterization. I did not know any thing about it, it never actually broke anything.
What will happen is possibly the end of the shaft may get worn and cause the shaft to need repaired or replaced at the next re-build.
You could also junk the bowl out if it wears through the bushing, and at that point the impeller could get into the wear ring.

Anyway, it isn't that big a deal to pull the bowl and put a bushing and seal in, the hardest part is actually the transom cover sealing.

I removed my bowl and was able to leave transom plate on.

Originally Posted by krusn56

I removed my bowl and was able to leave transom plate on.

That certainly makes it easier!

Ok the pic helps.

So basically the bowl bushing is similar to a pilot bearing/bushing that the input shaft in a transmission rides on, it just helps to center it to an extent... So if the shaft overheats in there and deforms the bushing, from lack of lubrication, the whole rotating mass of the shaft/impeller might get through slightly off balance and that would not be good.

Could cavitation from running the boat with an unbalanced shaft due to debris stuck in the impeller or around the shaft cause the bushing/seal to go bad? Ive had to run the boat (at low speeds aka 5-8mph) for miles at a time to get it back to a ramp to pull it out of the water to remove debris that were stuck in the pump.

Originally Posted by Bonzen

Ok the pic helps.

So basically the bowl bushing is similar to a pilot bearing/bushing that the input shaft in a transmission rides on, it just helps to center it to an extent... So if the shaft overheats in there and deforms the bushing, from lack of lubrication, the whole rotating mass of the shaft/impeller might get through slightly off balance and that would not be good.

Could cavitation from running the boat with an unbalanced shaft due to debris stuck in the impeller or around the shaft cause the bushing/seal to go bad? Ive had to run the boat (at low speeds aka 5-8mph) for miles at a time to get it back to a ramp to pull it out of the water to remove debris that were stuck in the pump.

It is exactly like a pilot bushing.

I don't know if an unbalanced event would hurt it given the low RPM you describe...I've had to do the same thing before.

I also would be surprised if any catastrophic damage would occur from a bad seal. The water does cool and lubricate the bushing.
The experts would know more about that.

Originally Posted by thatguy

It is exactly like a pilot bushing.

I don't know if an unbalanced event would hurt it given the low RPM you describe...I've had to do the same thing before.

I also would be surprised if any catastrophic damage would occur from a bad seal. The water does cool and lubricate the bushing.
The experts would know more about that.

Ok cool. I'll have to pull it apart at the end of the season, hopefully it lasts that long lol. I'm definitely learning alot on this forum, thanks everyone.

BTW, how did you grenade that impeller?? Looks like you sucked in a rock quarry through it...

Like said prior theres an "aray" of possibilities, shafts and bushings hold tight tolerances and can wear to cause seal leaks , seals can simply fail, become damaged from debris (remanins of ski ropes , trash bags, six pack plastic, even found a ball cap wrapped up in one

Originally Posted by Bonzen

Ok cool. I'll have to pull it apart at the end of the season, hopefully it lasts that long lol. I'm definitely learning alot on this forum, thanks everyone.

BTW, how did you grenade that impeller?? Looks like you sucked in a rock quarry through it...

It's lasted this long, right? Should go till the end of summer.

My impeller? Everyone has a different theory!!

Basically, it was a detailed aluminum A. The intake was all screwed up from a guy doing a hack job re-setting it.
It cavitated badly, and came apart. Once a few chunks came off, the damage quickly became catastrophic.
I have a Stainless one now!

Originally Posted by BLUE BOMBER

how much milk in the bowl is bad? i just checked and filled mine before the summer and got a few good pumps of the bottle worth the milk out of it... i normally only check the SOB once a year, last year i didnt even do it. Any ideas or thoughts guys..

Not uncommon considering its submerged much of the time ,recheck it to see if its chronic (re-occuring) and if it is it may have some issue to deal with as well Tom