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Ok. Assuming there's an issue with the input voltage, that could still be part of the problem. I guess I didn't see a picture of the wiring.
Ok. Assuming there's an issue with the input voltage, that could still be part of the problem. I guess I didn't see a picture of the wiring.
If it flies, floats, or fornicates you are bound to have trouble with it.
#1 is Automotive Pumps leak fuel in your boat when the internals fail - big problem with fire. IF the motor windings are burnt then it will draw too much amperage. chances are it was damaged and further use has damaged it more. Problem is there are no serviceable parts in this thing. So if its new then return it. if not then get a new one, preferrably not a Holley Blue.... Try the Mallory 110 or 140
1975 Sanger True Flat - 496 BBC
Sunday I ran the boat in the water for about 20 minutes before it stopped..again this is another new pump. I took off the pre-filter and ran it direct with a cheap little glass inline..then yesteday I put a hose directly from the fuel pump to the gas tank and just ran the pump for about 1/2 hour without the engine running..just circulated the fuel from the tank, though the pump and then back into the tank..it stayed cool. I ran it that way switching from both tanks without an issue. I blew air through all the fuel lines, blew air directly into the line that comes out of the tank pickup. The fuel appears to flow freely when you look at the fuel filter through the glass window..in addition there are no fuel leaks coming from the pump because it is automotive..I have an electrician friend coming over in about 1/2 hour. He is going to check the thing out with an amp clamp..I will post again after he has left..thanks Andrew.
Last edited by Tittyman; 06-26-2012 at 04:40 PM.
"Bill, if your gonna ride my ass that hard, at least you could pull my hair"....Hillary Clinton
how did you determine it needs a 25amp fuse? i would take a volt meter, se what voltage is at the pump, then start the thing and check voltage again. if it's drawing 20+ amps, you're going to see a helluva voltage drop.
next thing i would do is remove the pump from the boat, pull the cap off the bottom and make sure the impeller is turning freely. then put it back together and bench test it with the battery, doing the same thing for voltage check. if the thing is so screwed up it needs 20+ amps to turn with a small load on it, it's still going to show a big voltage drop on the bench as there's something odd with the motor.
ok so then you need to suck from the gas can with nothing in between the can and the pump, and the output go to your boat fuel system (post filter, dead head reg. carb). start and run the boat, and see if it gets hot. If it does not get hot its definitely something in the suction that the pump doesn't like. If it gets hot it's from the pressure side and I'd put money on it that if you switched over from the dead head to a return system, the problems would go away. Again, even though those pumps are SUPPOSE to work with dead heads, they really don't like them, and I believe are the cause of many electric failures as they just start working too hard.
Did you change anything right before the original pump you'd been running for years gave it up? has anything else in that fuel system changed since that first pump died?
Andrew
Are you running the correct size supply lines? I had a pump that would get hot because the supply line was too small and the pump was pulling more than the line could supply. I swapped it and everything was good.
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#1 is Automotive Pumps leak fuel in your boat when the internals fail - big problem with fire. IF the motor windings are burnt then it will draw too much amperage. chances are it was damaged and further use has damaged it more. Problem is there are no serviceable parts in this thing. So if its new then return it. if not then get a new one, preferrably not a Holley Blue.... Try the Mallory 110 or 140
Break Out AnotherThousand
A good friend will comes bail you out of jail, BUT a True friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn we f#*ked up"
A wild guess...
Is it possible the old pump that worked for years deadheaded was just a little "loose" inside and didn't mind the pressure build up because it would bleed it off inside while maintaining enough volume to supply the engine.... Then that pump was left on, deadheaded for an extended period of time with no fuel moving anywhere.... Enter the new pump, nice and tight inside, and it doesn't bleed any pressure at all.....Maybe that is why it seems to like the "bleed off" of the return system...
Just a guess....
Ray
PS someone asked if anything changed...Yes, he said he moved the pump power from the ignition "ON" switch to a toggle, or push/pull. So in the past the old over heated pump was never on unless the engine was running....
Last edited by Moneypit; 06-26-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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It's that button in the middle of the steering wheel........
Ok the wiring is good according to my electrician buddy who just left..Also yesterday I ran the fuel pump with a line directly to the fuel tanks without the engine running..ran it for at least 1/2 hour without the pump heating up..even changed back a forth between the two tanks a few times..the pump did not heat up..someone else asked how do I know it needed a 20-25 amp fuse..because last Friday we were tuning and running it on the hose..the 7.5 amp fuse blew..ran it again and the 10 amp fuse blew..put in a 20 amp fuse and check the hot lead right from the pump and it was reading 20 amps with the motor running..so I put in a 25 amp fuse. The fuse no longer blows but the pump gets hot out on the water under load...
"Bill, if your gonna ride my ass that hard, at least you could pull my hair"....Hillary Clinton
you have suction problems. if it didn't heat up when running with the fuel going to the reg and carbs but only sucking straight from the top of the tank, then its in the suction lines. They may be clear by putting air through them, but could be still very restrictive. I'd start by replacing all the fuel line before the pump. check the tank selection valve by physically looking through it for restriction. Also check for possible air leaks.... Last thing is to pull the tanks and the actual suction tube in the tanks.
Andrew
I was running the pump with the fuel line going to the top of the tank and just recirculating the fuel...it was not going to the carbs at all..just the pump and the regulator..I blew air though all the lines..the tanks are clean..I guess it could possibly be the manual selector switch and that side of the switch might have a little debris in..I blew through that also but did not remove it..I disconnected the fuel line that goes to the pump, put the selector on that tank and blew air through it..then I disconnected the line at the tank and blew into the tank and then through that fuel line that went from the tank to the selector..the flow looked pretty strong to me..it was just slightly less than the other tank but not by much at all..replaced all the fuel lines 2 years ago..I'm not sure if it had a minor blockage it would cause the pump to get hot enough to stop or need a 25 amp fuse unless my thinking is way off..One last question..both of my tanks are the round 10 gallon aluminum ones..the pickup in the tanks, do they have a screen or something at the the bottom where if I run a wire from the top of the pickup to the bottom I can damage something..thanks Andrew.
Last edited by Tittyman; 06-26-2012 at 08:27 PM.
"Bill, if your gonna ride my ass that hard, at least you could pull my hair"....Hillary Clinton
i know you had an electrician friend check it out but i would double check the wires. cut the end off near the connector and if they are any color (purple, gray, white, green old penny in a fountain) aside from new penny copper there is a huge resistance being compounded to the 7.5 amps the pump should draw. best would be to measure resistance across the power AND ground in every connection from the battery all the way back to the battery. one wire at a time (from battery to fuse, fuse to switch, switch to pump, pump to ground. its very possible that with your old pump burning up it heated the wires enough inside to promote corrosion that would add amp draw, but not enough to melt the shielding. very common on old quality wires.
have you actually had this thing quit while cruising on the water? Free flow testing with the gas can is quite a bit different than running it on the trailer idling for 20-30 minutes.
"He is a lover, not a fighter. But he's also a fighter, so dont get any ideas."
I misunderstood your last post then. But what I thought you did is what you need to do. Put the suction directly in from the top of the gas tank to the pump, then use it to start and actually run the engine just like how you would on the lake. No bypassing fuel back to the tank, but using it just like it is in the boat while running the boat (the lake is obviously the best way)
if it doesn't get hot it's suction related. If it does then it's most likely the dead head setup causing all the heat. As you clearly found, using the pump in near free flow, with fuel return, it has no issues.
I'm thinking that Ray may be getting it right. the pump is trying to flow more than the system is allowing due to the dead head. But being new it just has less internal bypass so It causes the pump to work much harder trying to move fuel that is not moving, since it's not being used as fast as its being moved and it isn't bypassing like the old one did internally. Adding the return system will likely fix everything. (it just has to return back to the suction line, not necessarily the tanks themselves) First you should do the test I said, to test the suction side to ensure its not the issue. But I'm really thinking the fix is to just incorporate the return line.
Honestly, my personal opinion is that unless you have a PCM that is monitoring and controlling current to the fuel pump, All electric pumps should be on a return system only. Most small electric pumps can work on deadhead, but without a doubt they will be worked harder than they should.
Andrew
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