laminating over gel coat
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 14 of 27

Thread:
laminating over gel coat

  1. #1
    Senior Member jetjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Diamond Bar, Big River
    Posts
    1,145

    Default laminating over gel coat

    Is it ever ok to laminate over gel coat or is it absolutely necessary to grind all the way thru to some cloth material?
    I decided to remove the slight hook in the bottom of this Eliminator while I was epoxying in the front of the intake after moving it back in the hull 5-1/2". In an effort to minimize the amount of material to fill in the deression I ground all the way thru to glass in some areas but in other areas not quite all the way thru as you can see in these pics. All surfaces to receive new cloth were ground with 36 grit with a d.a. sander and cleaned with acetone mutiple times prior to laminating to insure a clean dust free surface. You can see in these pics. how thin the remaining gel is. The color gel coat is backed up with black in the mold before laminating the hull. That's the thin black area you see between the white gel and the graish cloth material of the hull. My concerne here is adhesion. If this is a bad method and likely to delaminate some time in the future I would rather grind it all off now and start over rather than having to fix it some time later. I used richold isothalic resin, 2-oz. csm and 1708 biaxial cloth for the build up. I laid the largest pieces first and then staggered back with smaller pcs. as I built up the surface to fill in the low area and minimize grinding to get to the desired surface height. All material laid was larger than necessary so I could grind to a feather edge . and have a nice flat finish surface. Will I be ok with this or do I have to start over?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-10 11.40.40.jpg 
Views:	107 
Size:	87.5 KB 
ID:	186174   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-10 11.40.09.jpg 
Views:	97 
Size:	92.9 KB 
ID:	186175   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-10 11.38.51.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	94.9 KB 
ID:	186176  

  2. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member jetjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Diamond Bar, Big River
    Posts
    1,145

    Default more pics.

    here's a couple pics. of the lamination.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-11 17.44.32.jpg 
Views:	94 
Size:	92.3 KB 
ID:	186177   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-11 17.44.16.jpg 
Views:	93 
Size:	95.9 KB 
ID:	186178   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-11 17.44.10.jpg 
Views:	93 
Size:	98.6 KB 
ID:	186179   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-11 17.45.10.jpg 
Views:	97 
Size:	95.7 KB 
ID:	186180   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-11 17.45.24.jpg 
Views:	93 
Size:	92.8 KB 
ID:	186181  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-11 17.45.30.jpg 
Views:	92 
Size:	93.4 KB 
ID:	186182  

  4. #3
    Senior Member OFFSHORE GINGER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    West Mich
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    first off , what grit did you use to prep the surface , and yes laminating over the gel is fine considering gel is only a resin with a a pigment. Warren the bottom line is ..........i cant understand why you went the route you did by laminating in the lows or surface with glass ..................when you could have saved yourself a whole lot of time , energy ,and money by filling in the lows with a filler and glassing .over the filler to avoid any cracking down the road . But non the less it will be fine and have a great weekend .
    Last edited by OFFSHORE GINGER; 12-08-2012 at 05:48 PM.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Senior Member jetjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Diamond Bar, Big River
    Posts
    1,145

    Default filler

    Thanks for the reply O.G. All surfaces were ground with 36 grit. My reasoning and justification for proceeding with laying in the glass was that the gel coat was the original gel and seemed no different to me than the resin within the hull glass lamination itself. I just started to second guess myself because I have very little glass work experience but I have been reading a lot of threads on here and on other sites to learn as much as I can. I had this crazy vision of it delaminating while hauling azz on the water and it severely upsetting the boat and crashing into something and people getting hurt and stuff.
    Funny you mention filling it with a filler as that's what I started with. I started with USC duraglass. I called their tech dept. to find out how to measure the hardner ratio, they were very nice and helpful. After proceeding I had a few more questions so I called them back and in the process learned my hardner was to old (just over a year) and that the material was not curing correctly because to much benzene had evaporated out of it. So I chipped and ground it all off (about 1/2 gallon of it.) That's when I decided to just glass it in. I figured this was probably the most ideal method anyway because it seems it is the most difficult way to do it. Thank you for putting my mind at ease. Now I can proceed with confidence that It should stay put. What filler would you recommend to use for the little thin fill areas that may show up in the final stages before re-gel coating this thing? I was thinking of using duraglass again with new hardner or maybe mixing up a batch of iso-resin mixed with milled fibers and cabosil. Which would be the best? The mixture will have a longer open work time but that may not be necessary.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-07 12.41.19.jpg 
Views:	100 
Size:	93.5 KB 
ID:	186189   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-07 12.41.35.jpg 
Views:	92 
Size:	98.2 KB 
ID:	186190   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2012-11-07 13.22.06.jpg 
Views:	99 
Size:	90.5 KB 
ID:	186191  

  7. #5
    Senior Member OFFSHORE GINGER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    West Mich
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    Actually , to tell you the truth , i wish you would have made contact with me prior to all of this work that you have already done because i could have saved you a lot of time ADTECH Plastic Systems and this product is good above and below the waterline which is a product that i used at Skater , and still use today for all bottom's / or ( blueprinting ) work , and something that i would have suggested for you to use at this time . Warren , just a quick mention and that is , i would skip the dura - glass , and i will give you a call tomorrow afternoon .
    Last edited by OFFSHORE GINGER; 12-08-2012 at 07:20 PM.

  8. #6
    Senior Member jetjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Diamond Bar, Big River
    Posts
    1,145

    Post

    I would have if I weren't so dam bassakwards.

  9. #7
    Senior Member OFFSHORE GINGER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    West Mich
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    Warren , quit throwing your self under the bus and just curious what state do you live in ?

  10. #8
    Senior Member jetjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Diamond Bar, Big River
    Posts
    1,145

    Post

    That p-77 seems very similar to the poly bond b-35 I used to plug various bolt holes in the transom and other areas. Would the p-77 be flexable enough in a skim filler application so that I could prime and gel over it?

  11. #9
    Senior Member jetjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Diamond Bar, Big River
    Posts
    1,145

    Post

    I'm in southern california.

  12. #10
    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nv
    Posts
    1,522

    Default

    Ahhh the joys of blueprinting the bottom.
    Warren, When I bluebrinted the bottom on the Kona, I used the same exact materials as you are using. The only other product I used was som Rage Gold polly filler, for the fine tunning.
    I just sanded the bottom gell coat with 36gt and laid the glass right over. As Artie said above, gel is baisicly just a pigmented resin.
    I did like the duraglass, but for me I found it hard to sand.

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

    18' Advantage http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-...k-project.html

  13. #11
    Senior Member SoldHondaBoughtHondo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lake Havasu az.
    Posts
    4,286

    Default

    I guess the 3 gal. of bondo/resin mix i spread on the bottom of my hydro wasn't such a good idea?
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
    guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free
    education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free
    utilities, and only law enforcement has guns. And believe it or
    not, such a place does, indeed, exist: It's called prison."

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio
    Maricopa County Sheriff's Office

  14. #12
    Senior Member OFFSHORE GINGER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    West Mich
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetjunky View Post
    That p-77 seems very similar to the poly bond b-35 I used to plug various bolt holes in the transom and other areas. Would the p-77 be flexable enough in a skim filler application so that I could prime and gel over it?
    Yes , the p77 is flexable .

  15. #13
    Senior Member jetjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Diamond Bar, Big River
    Posts
    1,145

    Default

    thanks for the info. and help guys, I really appreciate it. I started grinding on it sunday and adhesion looks really good. It also seems I applied more glass than I needed to so I'm going to get plenty of practice with grinding. haha I'm using the d.a. for general material removal and then the air file to flatten it all out. Are 16 or 24 grit, adhesive back d.a. sanding discs readily available?

  16. #14
    Senior Member SoldHondaBoughtHondo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lake Havasu az.
    Posts
    4,286

    Default

    You might try one of these for sanding.

    Ingersoll Rand 328B 8" Geared Orbital Sander IR328B | eBay

    Way better than a DA...7" pad makes it difficult to make anything not flat. Can of spray glue and you can stick anything from a 16 grit grinder disc to 1000 grit wet/dry paper on it..and yes, i have blocked primer for paint with it and used it for color sanding...It uses less air than a DA It doesn't blow dust everywhere. with 150 psi air you just about have to stand on it to stall it. The action helps keep paper clean and it seems to last longer.and. I use mine to sand aluminum for polish and i made a 5" pad for it for smaller areas. I have run mine @175 psi a lot.....I probably had it 12 years and it still works fine....Probably half of the noise a DA makes to. I did the entire bottom of my boat with a 36"X2" longboard and 40 grit anything smoother i did with sander...The bottom is every bit as straight as the top.
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
    guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free
    education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free
    utilities, and only law enforcement has guns. And believe it or
    not, such a place does, indeed, exist: It's called prison."

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio
    Maricopa County Sheriff's Office

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Tags for this Thread

Digg This Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93