Thread:

Hey Moneypit

Originally Posted by Jet-Daytona

Ray,do you use or believe in engine oil additives? especially for older engines.Thanks.

Yeah, I believe in that stuff, Durolube, Slick 50, Zmax.... I only KNOW of one occasion that some of that stuff saved us with the PS89, but I put it in my street stuff and can't say it ever hurt anything.... I've heard horror stories of Slick 50 clogging oil filters, BULLSHIT, it is the same micro size as "SMOKE''
Ray

Originally Posted by Moneypit

Yeah, I believe in that stuff, Durolube, Slick 50, Zmax.... I only KNOW of one occasion that some of that stuff saved us with the PS89, but I put it in my street stuff and can't say it ever hurt anything.... I've heard horror stories of Slick 50 clogging oil filters, BULLSHIT, it is the same micro size as "SMOKE''
Ray

Of course you don't have a problem with slick 50, you use Fram filter. They can't stop low flying insects
So what is the micron size of smoke? Can you filter smoke. Does the cheap ass filter on a cigerette catch any. If the filter starts to load up, does it catch more grud as it loads, or less. Can the micron rating of a filter get smaller as the filter gruds up with stuff other than Slick 50. Can the filter get to a point that it will even stop Slick 50. Is the micron size of oil smaller than Slick 50. If the filter gets to the point that even oil can't get thru, does it stand to reason that the slick 50 would get stop prior to that? If so, why would you put something in your oil that makes your filter life shorter do to getting caught by the filter?

What additives do you think are beneficial to motor oil beside ZDDP additive packages?

Originally Posted by gn7

Of course you don't have a problem with slick 50, you use Fram filter. They can't stop low flying insects
So what is the micron size of smoke? Can you filter smoke. Does the cheap ass filter on a cigerette catch any. If the filter starts to load up, does it catch more grud as it loads, or less. Can the micron rating of a filter get smaller as the filter gruds up with stuff other than Slick 50. Can the filter get to a point that it will even stop Slick 50. Is the micron size of oil smaller than Slick 50. If the filter gets to the point that even oil can't get thru, does it stand to reason that the slick 50 would get stop prior to that? If so, why would you put something in your oil that makes your filter life shorter do to getting caught by the filter?

What additives do you think are beneficial to motor oil beside ZDDP additive packages?

Wow Bob, you're slipping, 14 whole minutes.... Anyway, he asked, and I answered... Your Fram bashing is, quite frankly, boring... As I recall a Fram engineer came to PB and rebutted everything you had to say about Fram filtration. Then you started in about "by passes" within filters, now it's micron sizes so far below reality the argument has zero merit in the present discussion about oil additives.

As I stated, I do have experience with ONE occasion where I feel an additive of that type saved our racing bacon. Other than that, I said I didn't think it would hurt anything, and that Slick 50 won't clog an oil filter....Do you have evidence of Slick 50 clogging an oil filter of ANY brand? The chemical engineers at Slick 50 would really like to hear about it....

Actually, a loose knit fabric will filter nicotine from cigarette smoke...A window screen will filter/accumulate nicotine residue......As for the actual smoke, I don't pretend to know, but a bunch of it seems to get through....ANY brand of "crud" filed oil filter will reduce flow, but the addition of the additives we're talking about would only add a single digit percentage to that reduction.... However, if the additive was added prior to the filter clogging with "crud", have no fear....Remember the traveling demonstration? Drain the oil, drain the water, pour sand in the valvetrain, and that slant 6 just kept humming along...Hey, I saw it on TV, so it must be true!!!

Did I add an additive to the new truck? Yep...About the third oil change it was on sale, so I put some in...Did it/is it doing any good? Hell,I don't know. I don't even remember if it said it was compatible with full synthetic oil or not... BTW, I use the Kragen 5-30 synthetic, bottled by Mobil, for Kragen, and a bit cheaper at $5 a quart, vs $6....Maybe I'm rolling the dice there too?.....My last filter? Gee, I don't remember...I know it's about the size of a Tea cup, and I think this one is white....The next one might be black, or orange, or pink.... It is only there for 7-10K miles anyway....
Maybe I should have responded to the original question with a simple YES....
Ray
PS I use to drink "Thrifty Drug Store" brand of Vodka, bottled for them by Kamchatka....

PSS For anyone considering this type of oil additive, it is NOT recommended during the "break in/ring seating" of a new engine.... Something about friction reduction that slows the rings seating.... Just another "rumor" I heard somewhere....

I recommend all who have an interest in oil filter technology read this thread in its entirety before making any decisions on what filter is or isn't best from hearsay. Probably one of the most informative threads on this website.

Will I be using Fram filters? Hell no, but what do I know.

Wow, very informative thread there Mike.... It made me stop to think about our last engine failure at Long beach in 09...... We had a bearing issue, the first bearing issue ever. Sure we blow shit up, but it's always been something that broke, not related to the crank bearings... I'm wondering if I somehow wound up with a non by passing Wix filter? Using the Olsen cooler, we don't run the standard BBC by pass above the filter... Oil pressure was low during warm up on Saturday morning, but I discounted it as a bad gauge. (boat was stripped for hull repair after Parker in April, and I thought oil line had air in it, or something???)... We ran good on Saturday, both heats, (1st/2nd), and burned #3/#4 rod bearings, and kicked the rods out both sides of the pan on the second lap Sunday morning... We've ran everything from PH13s to PH5s, to HP4s, and never had any bearing issues... Those Frams apparently have a less restrictive media, as well as lower internal filter by passes... Maybe I screwed up and put a non by passing Wix filter on it??? I'd better check the K&N on the 496!!!!

When you factor in that automotive filters are designed to be used for 2-3K miles with conventional oils, and much longer with synthetic blends, the "miles" our filters see is so minimal I can't see one clogging up in "minutes" of use...I hope that Wix filter is still kicking around the shop somewhere, I'm really curious as to it's number.....

Also, my experience with Fram (over 40 years), and the FACT things have changed in their manufacturing, does raise some questions, for sure... Hear that Bob, I might have some doubts when choosing my next filter.....How's that?....
Ray

Baldwin, K&N, Wix, in any order, are light years ahead of Fram. Just my opinion. I feel so strongly about it that I am not reordering any more Fram filters for resale at Rex Marine. Most are gone now and I plan to blow the balance out on ebay.

Baldwin and K&N only from here on. And we did sell a lot of Fram HP stuff in the past. I don't want to be a contributing factor in people blowing their shit up. Again just my opinion after considering all the facts presented in that thread.

As far as the bypass/no bypass debate, I tend to go with the bypass whether within filter or elsewhere. I figure even slightly contaminated oil is better than no oil if you are having a scenario that is going to clog a filter. Water in the oil being one fairly common such scenario in boats. Why spit the rods out over a little water is my reasoning. If its coming apart for repair anyway at least save the hard parts/expensive stuff.

Originally Posted by Moneypit

Maybe I screwed up and put a non by passing Wix filter on it??? I'd better check the K&N on the 496!!!!



Also, my experience with Fram (over 40 years), and the FACT things have changed in their manufacturing, does raise some questions, for sure... Hear that Bob, I might have some doubts when choosing my next filter.....How's that?....
Ray

Been trying to tell you Ray, just because Chevron White pump use to be the stuff, I don't suggest you try running it in a 13 to 1 pro stock engine today. Things change. Frams have been built with crap for years now. You only have to cut up a couple filter (like as a racer you're suppose to) and you would see some serious differences. You would also see that spending extra money on a Moroso, or Jomar filter is stupid becasue the same filter is sold as a Baldwin.

Like Mike said, Wix, (napa), Baldwin, or K&N. There are others names, but they are the same filter.

Ray, I can already tell you, the K&N does not have a bypass, and the odds that the Wix did are slim to none.

engine restore in the silver can..pop top lid..use it in both my hi milage cars along with fuel inj cleaner in my gas

Originally Posted by Jet-Daytona

Rex!! have you ever heard of Engine Restore.? I have a neighbor who swears by it.

If you try it...do a compression test before and after. My old warehouse guy swears it helped his compression. I think it even claims that right on the can....or that it would even the compression out(if u have a low ones)...or both. I cant remember.

Originally Posted by H20MOFO

If you try it...do a compression test before and after. My old warehouse guy swears it helped his compression. I think it even claims that right on the can....or that it would even the compression out(if u have a low ones)...or both. I cant remember.

Restore does work. Every oil change now on a 5.0 Ford with 285,000 on it. It works! But its primary claim to fame is restoration of compression. It will do nothing to retore a bearing. And very little in the way of fending off wear. They make no bullshit claims you can drive you car from LA to NY without an oil pan, or that it will triple you milage, or any other bullshit.


The others that I won't even allow to ride inside anything I own, let alone inside the engine, all contain chlorine. Chlorine is slippery stuff. Its also corrosive as hell. Its not a lubricant! Prolong is chlorinated olefins. There are others.

Zmax(formerly Lenckite) has some benefits in the right applications. It was used extensivily at Indy from the 30s thru 60s and 70s until the introduction of synthetics. But back then oil wasn't what it is today. Not sure how much of a benefit it is today, but it can't hurt. Its really nothing more than extremely refined oil with extremely small molecule size. It also happens to be one of the very few approved oil additives by the FAA. Not as Zmax, but sold as AVBLEND. But they are basically the same stuff. Slick 50 IS NOT APPROVED BY THE FAA AS AN OIL ADDITIVE! Slick 50 is a total sham amoung many.


I was trashing the Slick 50 more than anything because for one, Dupont themselves say it has zero benefits as an oil additive, and even goes so far as to recommend against the use of it as an oil additive for use in a engine. Small enough particles will not clog a filter. The problem with teflon is that it has an affinity for itself. Small particle join with other small particale till they aren't small anymore. I think DuPont a pretty good grip on the properties of teflon. The stuff is a joke. DuPont won't even allow Slick 50 to claim it contains Teflon, and I haven't even seen the letters PTFE on the stuff in a long time. Maybe Slick 50 figured it out as well.

People that haven't done some basic research should refrain. Its like recommending Fram filters. Its pretty common knowledge they SUCK!

I'm not recommending any of them. Just exposing the frauds for what they are.