2005 Cummings Diesel Help
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2005 Cummings Diesel Help

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rocknpalms's Avatar
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    Default 2005 Cummings Diesel Help

    This is for an old buddy of mine goes by "Smokey Bear" he has a water truck that he uses on call for the fire dept. 68 year old vet.
    He pulled out the gas engine from the water truck and put in a 2005 6.7 Cummings Turbo Diesel engine. After running around for the day he is getting lights on the dash and running issues.
    Now he is does not understand much and is very confused and troubled that he just put 30k into his truck and cant get it to run. Cal Pac in rialto said they can not help him.
    He claims that the engine is a grey market engine from England?????????? And that the computor is looking for sensors that he does not have??????????? I dont know where he got the info but he needs help. Do we have anyone here that knows about this engines computor and what he needs to do?
    He gave me these numbers but I have no idea what they mean.
    ISB 6.7 21643323
    CPL#8530
    SC#9340
    If anyone knows of a shop that does custom work on these engines please let me know.

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    HELL OF A GUY TITTIES AND BEER's Avatar
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    pm stvkeith,he knows his shiit
    CLEAR YOUR MIND ,AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW

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    First off, it's a Cummins, not a Cummings.

    Secondly, why would he spend that kind of money to put a fully electronic high emissions controlled engine into a water truck??? I know it's hindsight, but a 24 valve 5.9 would have been a much better choice. The new ones are incredibly sensitive, and do read all kinds of sensors. I'm kind of surprised that the thing even runs without all the widgets hooked up to it.


    Good luck.

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    Senior Member Rocknpalms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordy View Post
    First off, it's a Cummins, not a Cummings.

    Secondly, why would he spend that kind of money to put a fully electronic high emissions controlled engine into a water truck??? I know it's hindsight, but a 24 valve 5.9 would have been a much better choice. The new ones are incredibly sensitive, and do read all kinds of sensors. I'm kind of surprised that the thing even runs without all the widgets hooked up to it.


    Good luck.
    Jordy,

    Thanks for the spell check.
    I agree the money he dumped into the truck was wrong, last year he put in the gas engine that was another 25k plus. Stupid aside let me know if we can help the poor guy out and get the truck going. He means well.
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknpalms View Post
    Jordy,

    Thanks for the spell check.
    I agree the money he dumped into the truck was wrong, last year he put in the gas engine that was another 25k plus. Stupid aside let me know if we can help the poor guy out and get the truck going. He means well.
    Thanks.
    Really not a spell check as you typed "Cummings" in a few different spots, but just trying to get on the same page in the event you end up somewhere else, you're not looking for "Cummings" help, as subliminally it tends to detract from the information that you're seeking.

    $25K for a gas engine??? You know, I work for a major diesel engine supplier, can you send him my way next time he wants to put an engine in a water truck???

    As I previously mentioned, going the route he did on a repower is going to be problematic as the newer diesels look for many more sensor readings to monitor all of the different parameters required to insure the compliance with the new tiers of emission laws.

    Not sure that they make some kind of a base ECM for that engine that would allow it to essentially run off-highway and close loop many of the parameters that are looked at for on highway operation.

    Grey market with Euro s/n's are just going to complicate things as most dealers will view him as someone that tried to skirt the dealer network to save a buck, which typically ends up costing an extra $10/per or more, as he's finding out.

    One option would be finding out all the missing sensors and having them installed to meet parameters, the other would be trying to trick the ECM into thinking they're there. I don't know if anyone is doing that for the 6.7 yet as it's such a new platform.

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    Senior Member Jim W's Avatar
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    Sign up and pay $35.00??? and start asking questions. Or, you can sign up, not pay and just read for free.

    Personally, I think the guy screwed himself big time!!!

    Jim


    http://turbodieselregistry.com/

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    Senior Member Rocknpalms's Avatar
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    Jordy,

    Thanks for additional information. If you think of a shop that may help let me know.

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    Senior Member Rocknpalms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TITTIES AND BEER View Post
    pm stvkeith,he knows his shiit
    PM sent

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    Senior Member STV_Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknpalms View Post
    This is for an old buddy of mine goes by "Smokey Bear" he has a water truck that he uses on call for the fire dept. 68 year old vet.
    He pulled out the gas engine from the water truck and put in a 2005 6.7 Cummings Turbo Diesel engine. After running around for the day he is getting lights on the dash and running issues.
    Now he is does not understand much and is very confused and troubled that he just put 30k into his truck and cant get it to run. Cal Pac in rialto said they can not help him.
    He claims that the engine is a grey market engine from England?????????? And that the computor is looking for sensors that he does not have??????????? I dont know where he got the info but he needs help. Do we have anyone here that knows about this engines computor and what he needs to do?
    He gave me these numbers but I have no idea what they mean.
    ISB 6.7 21643323
    CPL#8530
    SC#9340
    If anyone knows of a shop that does custom work on these engines please let me know.
    Well, as many said, your buddy would have been WAY better off with a 94-98 mechanical fuel pump version of the Cummins. Add a fuel source and 12v and it would run. No engine lights, no codes, no computers. Lots of hop ups available as well.

    This motor is an industrial Euro 4 motor. Rated 296hp/811tq. Was built in Darlington industrial plant. No VGT turbo. Setup to run in trucks and coaches. Problem is if Cal Pac can't read it, it might have specific connectors/sensors/harnesses to Europe and no one over here will be able to read into it. Talking to my Cummins buddy, Cal Pac doesn't want to touch it (even if they can) because it's gonna be a money pit of time - and they'd be worried about getting paid for the job.

    It does have common 1939 bus on it, so they should have the ability to read it. If he wants to get it handled, and doesn't mind a drive, my guy is in Denver (runs the Cummins Rocky Mountain service dept) and is willing to give it a try...but it ain't gonna be cheap. Let me know if he wants to persue this.
    Keith-


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    Senior Member Rocknpalms's Avatar
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    Here are a few ideas coming to mind please let me know if we are going in the right direction.
    I am going to call Banks in the morning to see if they have an aftermarket module that will trick the stock computer into running correctly.

    If not we are thinking of purchasing an American computer and removing the computer that the engine came with.

    Or seeing if a programable off road/race computer and dyno time will fix this.
    If anyone knows of products, part numbers or more information that will help.



    Also I was wondering how much he would have spent for a 6.7 engine that was not from England. He says he paid around $6,500 for this one.

    The 30k spent for the swap was for new trans, new rear end with the appropriate gear ratios, engine mount fabrication, radiator, intercooler installation of all parts............. the list goes on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknpalms View Post
    The 30k spent for the swap was for new trans, new rear end with the appropriate gear ratios, engine mount fabrication, radiator, intercooler installation of all parts............. the list goes on.
    Apparently someone saw your buddy coming.

    He'd be better off at this point to pull that engine out and put a mechanical pumped 5.9 that he could pick up out of a wrecked 3/4 pickup and be done with it. Pop the old one out and sell it. If nothing else, talk to the guys that sold it to them and sell it back to them for $0.75 on the dollar and cut his losses.

    All the suggestions you've made are just throwing more good money after bad.

    That's my suggestion.

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    Boss of the McIntyre Mob danhercules's Avatar
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    Call Clyde at Redline Performance Diesel. He dose some trick stuff. He is a nice guy willing to help. Could not hurt.


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    Senior Member STV_Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknpalms View Post
    Here are a few ideas coming to mind please let me know if we are going in the right direction.
    I am going to call Banks in the morning to see if they have an aftermarket module that will trick the stock computer into running correctly.
    Problem is that Banks is a large company. Unless you somehow spark the interest of Gale himself (not likely), they will tell you "we don't do that kind of work."
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknpalms View Post
    If not we are thinking of purchasing an American computer and removing the computer that the engine came with.
    Problem with this is that the US computer may use a different harness and different sensors. That might be a bit more expensive than you think. The US motors also get a VGT turbo that your motor doesn't have - so that's gonna piss off the US computer. Who knows what other unforseen issues are going to come up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknpalms View Post
    Or seeing if a programable off road/race computer and dyno time will fix this.
    If anyone knows of products, part numbers or more information that will help.
    There is no such thing that I'm aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknpalms View Post
    Also I was wondering how much he would have spent for a 6.7 engine that was not from England. He says he paid around $6,500 for this one.

    The 30k spent for the swap was for new trans, new rear end with the appropriate gear ratios, engine mount fabrication, radiator, intercooler installation of all parts............. the list goes on.
    As Jordy mentioned, my suggestions would be:

    1. If he's willing to spend money to fix what he has, let me know and I'll get you the contact info for my guy in Denver. He's the service manager of Cummins Rocky Mountain. He used to work with me at Diesel Dynamics, and likes a challenge. He told me yesterday, it would likely be several grand to get it trouble shot and figured out.

    2. If he just wants this nightmare to end, pull the motor he has now and sell it. Buy the older 12v engine. My suggestion would be a 215hp rated engine from the 96-98 Dodge Rams with a manual trans. This motor is the best starting point of projects like this as all it needs is a fuel line and 12v and it will run. If he's not interested in more than 350rwhp, he can go with ANY of the 12v engines from the 94-98 pickups (auto or manual). The 215's just came with a better pump (more easily modified) for performance purposes. You should be able to buy that motor for a few grand from a junk yard. I would be looking for one with less than 300k on it. The adapter plate to the trans, motor mounts, rad, IC, etc, should all be useable with the older motor. The turbo sits higher on the older motor, so maybe some fab work on the IC piping, but that's it.

    He'd probably be money ahead to do that at this point. Sell the old motor and buy a newer one and not have to put more money out of pocket.

    BTW, if it were my setup, I'd do #2. MUCH easier to work on/trouble shoot in the future too. Everyone in the diesel industry knows the 6BT engine, and the P-pump is well known - especially in the performance arenas.
    Keith-


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    Senior Member Rocknpalms's Avatar
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    Default Problem Solved??????????

    Had a talk with my buddy tonight he was saying that the truck ran good for a few hundred miles when the engine was first put in. I was unaware that it ran good for a while. With that information I was thinking something may have come loose like a boost/vacuume line or whatever.
    Well I did find a connector loose to a sensor. It was not snapped completely and was loose. Now I am not sure if it is a mass air flow sensor or a intake air temp sensor but it is located at the 90 just as it enters the intake manifold. I would assume that an air temp sensor would have very little correction to the injector pulse width and that a mass air flow sensor would have a great deal of correction.
    After correctly installing the connector we went for a 20 minute drive and it ran great and the idle was back to normal. Lets hope this was the issue and not that it starts running poor after a few hundred miles again.
    Can you guys tell me what sensor it might have been?
    Thanks for all your help so far.

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