Thread:

Student loan smoke and mirrors...

What is funny, all my private loans but one are below the federal 6% rate. All but two are over 4%. (I have like 11 loans)

The only nice thing about federal loans is that they don't aquire interest while in school. So really, a 6% rate is not the true rate when you adjust it for the time no interest is aquired but it is still above the rate in which the govenerment can borrow it.

Look at France. The takers have outnumbered teh producers. "Obamacare" is just another taker program where we'll be propetiually adding to the debt. Living like this is perfectly fine intil the consequences come. You can not fake wealth forever.

I'am confident the court is going to rule against Obamacare. We must make Obama a one term Pres. like Carter.

Originally Posted by Moneypit

Here we go again.....
The student loan program in this country has been a part of the "private" sector for decades, if not more... The going rate of interest was/has been in the area of 6%.... So, the liberal pukes, in order to pay for some obamacare programs take it over to a gov't program, and project revenue from that loan interest to be 8.5 BILLION... (money the gov't borrows @ 2.4%, and loans out @ 6.8%).... BUT, the dims see a decline in obama's numbers with the "younger" Americans, and decide to re excite them with a student loan interest reduction to 3.4%.... AND pull part of that 8.5 billion back to pay the difference, the "pay for" now required on ANY spending, or revenue reducing measures... Hmmm...
Now that interest rate reduction is due to expire and return to 6.8% on July 1st.... So, now the dims want to extend it, but don't want to pay for it by eliminating the obamacare program that depended on those interest PROFITS for funding...(funding they cut in half the first time the rate was reduced)... Instead, the dims want to modify long standing tax laws and rules used by the small, and large, businesses to defer taxes until the business' profit has been actually received by owners/stockholders, and taxed as "income", and/or dividends....(dividends are taxed at a lower rate based on Capitol Gains)....
The GOP controlled House has passed a bill to extend the lower interest rate on student loans, but have paid for it by pulling back the "projected revenue" from the "preventive medicine" program of obamacare. A program ORIGINALLY projected to be "paid for" by the higher interest rate revenues!!!!!
So the liberal puke liars are once again trying to spin reality into some sort of "GOP student hating, discrimination against minorities that can't afford college"...Bullshit.....
Are ALL liberal politicians liars?? Boy it sure seems like it when you stand back and listen to facts vs BULLSHIT..... "Watch my left hand while my right hand picks your pocket and steals your watch"....
Ray
PS the Senate bill FAILED, so if the dims really want to keep the lower rate they only have ONE choice, the House bill and saying "Bye Bye" to one more of the now unfunded programs associated with obamacare...

Ray, is it possible you are misinformed about the whole student loan subject? I guess you could say the student loan program used to be part of the private sector. The federal government used to give the money to the private sector through subsidies and then the private sector would loan this money to students. When the student repaid the loan, the private sector got to keep all the interest that was paid back. So the private sector made all the profit, but didn't take any of the risk (remember, they were lending government money, not private money). One of the provisions in the second of the health care reform laws to pass was a restructuring of the federal student loan program. Instead of giving money to the banks to lend to students, the federal government lends the money directly to the students. This way, the federal government gets the reward (interest) for the money that they are risking. The old way let the banks get the reward for the money the government is risking. Surely you will agree the new way is better.

Now the righties claim that the democrats don't want to pay for lowering the loan rate from 6.8 to 3.4. The government doesn't really have to pay anything because they are making money on this, not losing money. It does not cost them to lower the rates, because they are not paying more out with the lower rates. Funny how the righties are all up in arms about this saying the government has to pay to lower the rates yet they didn't see the need to find a way to pay when Bush decided he wanted to lower taxes two times. If you guys are so concerned about where the government can make cuts to things they actually pay, lets start with military spending; why don't we cut that 50%? The whole argument from the right about this is nothing more than politics as usual. That means obstructing anything democrats want to do that may help the economy.

Originally Posted by ram78d10

Now the righties claim that the democrats don't want to pay for lowering the loan rate from 6.8 to 3.4. The government doesn't really have to pay anything because they are making money on this, not losing money. It does not cost them to lower the rates, because they are not paying more out with the lower rates.

I keep reading these 3 sentences and wondering wtf. Dude, business classes. Look into them. Lemonade stand. Open one.

That's like selling your lemonade for 50 cents and lowering it to 5 cents because it isn't costing you anything. Meanwhile, "Mom" is still buying lemons and wondering why she is enabling her mentally challenged son by spending 35 cents so he can make 5 cents.

You realize that the thousands of government workers that process these loans and run the program actually have to be paid right? And that money comes from......? 3.4 is also pretty close to average yearly inflation. Whoops there went all your profit. Now you are in the red. Your lemonade stand just went bankrupt.....along with the post office....


THIS is why the government is going broke and every American with it. I am SICK of helping cover the idiots of the nation. Every 3 months when I send in that check, it disgusts me where it's going. The % of waste in that check makes me angry. I wish I could send that money to a worthwhile charity rather than send it to be wasted by politicians that can't manage money.

The further left these Libs go ie: from Socialism to Communism, the more inept their arguements become.

Where does a 50% cut in military budget come from? Does Ram have inside knowledge of what our defense budget should be?

Just argue ideology, and let the drones follow, don't have to make sense.

Originally Posted by Boss460

I keep reading these 3 sentences and wondering wtf. Dude, business classes. Look into them. Lemonade stand. Open one.

That's like selling your lemonade for 50 cents and lowering it to 5 cents because it isn't costing you anything. Meanwhile, "Mom" is still buying lemons and wondering why she is enabling her mentally challenged son by spending 35 cents so he can make 5 cents.

You realize that the thousands of government workers that process these loans and run the program actually have to be paid right? And that money comes from......? 3.4 is also pretty close to average yearly inflation. Whoops there went all your profit. Now you are in the red. Your lemonade stand just went bankrupt.....along with the post office....


THIS is why the government is going broke and every American with it. I am SICK of helping cover the idiots of the nation. Every 3 months when I send in that check, it disgusts me where it's going. The % of waste in that check makes me angry. I wish I could send that money to a worthwhile charity rather than send it to be wasted by politicians that can't manage money.

The whole point of my post was 1) to explain to Ray why federal student loans don't go through banks anymore and 2) to show how stupid the idea that tax cuts don't need to be paid for is and you helped me prove my point. Democrats want to keep the student loan interest rates low to "help the economy." In reality, I read that this lower rate would only save about $30 a month for the person that graduates with the average amount of student loan debt. That's not much and let's be honest, $30 a month isn't going to help the economy, but by lowering the interest rates we are decreasing the amount of revenue taken in by the government.

This is very similar to the idea put into action by Bush and the GOP with their tax cuts. They sent Americans a check for a few hundred dollars in the mail and said that would help stimulate the economy. They had to borrow money to send out those stimulus checks. But even more harmful, the tax cuts enacted at that time were never paid for, much like the lower interest rates that the GOP seem so concerned about now. Why wasn't the GOP concerned about the lost revenue from tax cuts then?

Let's be honest here for a minute, neither party is concerned about the deficit right now. They each want to spend money on things they want, while cutting spending on things the other guy wants. And in reality, as of right now, deficit spending isn't that bad of an idea. If the government was to make drastic cuts in spending the legs would be taken out from under this already shaky recovery. One only has to look across the pond at the economy of Great Britain and the recent austerity moves they have made to see where even moderate cuts right now would put our economy. If the righties don't like the economy now, they sure as hell wouldn't like it after government spending cuts have been made.

Now, let's look at your little diatribe about the government going broke, shall we? And let's look past any stimulus enacted during the recent recession because any President would have come up with a stimulus to help revive the economy whatever party they belonged to. The reason the government is going broke is because they spend more than they take in. You see, they provide all these services that people want. Is there waste? Sure, and guess what? There will always be waste because that's just the way things are. You are never going to be able to eliminate all the waste and to think you can is a pipe dream. Now getting back to spending more than they take in, that hasn't always been the case. The government was pretty responsible about spending untill some actor from California was elected President. He made huge cuts to taxes and increased the size of government and government spending so much that it incresed the national debt by about 20% during his time in office. This spending with lower tax rates continued through Bush 41s term where national debt was increased another 13%. Under Clinton, debt was cut by about 10%. Many say this was because of the dot com bubble, and that may be true. But at least the government was responsible enough to use the increased revenues to pay off debt. Then Bush 43 came to town and cut taxes and increased spending which led to a 27% increase in the debt. Now some people say his tax cuts spurred economic growth, but lets be real, the economic growth during his term was from the housing bubble. He could have acted responsibly and used that increased revenue to pay down debt but he didn't. Obama came to town facing an economic disaster that hadn't been seen in decades and had to do something to keep the US from falling into a depression. So he spent money, and he really had little choice in the matter because he had to do something.

What is the point of all this? Your taxes are going to go up. They have to if the national debt situation is ever going to be gotten under control. Since you were quick to recognize the flawed logic when I said that lowering the interest rates isn't going to cost the government money, I'm sure you will be able to see the flawed logic whenever the GOP wants to cut taxes without finding some way to pay for it. Since you have shown yourself to understand that national debt is caused by decreased revenues flowing into the government coffers, I'm sure the democrats and President Obama will appreciate your support whenever they want to raise taxes in the future.

I never said anything about democrats or republicans. I said politicians. The whole government. They are completely bipartisan when it comes to wasting huge sums of money. The only difference is the way they do it. I guess I could insert the shit sandwich metaphor here.

I for one am not going to make excuses for one party by using the excuse that the other side does it too just in another way. Both sides suck when it comes to fiscal planning. There are zero fiscal conservatives in the government. The only difference between the 2 sides fiscally is how they spend money they don't have.

As far as tax increases, that's fine. BUT, cost cutting comes BEFORE price increases. Simple concept really. Once they trim the fat, then we can talk about tax increases to cover the difference. But talking tax increases before cutting costs is just plain stupid. I'm also not necessarily for tax cuts. The 2% cut in employee FICA taxes was one of the dumbest things I've seen come out of congress in a long time.

Also, taxes do not automatically equal increased revenue.

Would you rather have 30% of $1,000,000 or 39.5% of $750,000? I'm sure everyone here can do the math.

How percentages work is one of the common sense things that is declining lately. I always have numerous customers complain that we give them a 50% discount from list price but our competitors give them a 66% discount from list price. They pay $2,695 for my product and $2,808 for competitor's yet they want a higher discount. Years ago I restructured parts pricing from 2 discount levels of 25% off and 40% off. I took the 25% off price and made it list price and changed 40% to 30%. People flipped shit because their discount went from 40% to 30% even though the NET pricing came out lower. The price they paid went DOWN but they threw a huge fit because their discount went from 40% to 30%.



Thus concludes my basic math rant....