Nice looking ride, you guy's are dealing with density altitude aswell, how about a pic of the fuel surge tank, i need to build one... Thanks for the participation.. ScottOriginally Posted by flatrat
July 2009 269.jpg (96.8 KB)
Seems a little flatter on the top now than with the Bassetts before
Dave, thanks for posting up numbers instead of some of the theories that have been thrown around (including myself in the throwing). Numbers produced in a careful dyno session always trump what I "wanted" the dyno to tell me. I will refrain from questioning the details as the trends there are close enough to answer my basic questions. Being that I can't shut my mouth I will reiterate what you said as the size of the pipes are important.
If you don't mind we asking, did you play with different diameters and lengths on the dyno?
Paul
Yes...pretty interesting stuff, info is gonna cost you though...Might have to get your Pop involved
From experience...I would recommend, starting with a 2 inch diameter pipe...sounds small, but seems to work best on unblown engines with less than 850hp.Nice stuff guy's, and special thanks to Professor Sammons, that is a Great share on your part, keep them coming and I'll let you know what we find when we start comparing the old known performance numbers with the headers to the zoomies..... Thanks Scott
I have run them on 1000-1100hp Blown Alky engines with little or no difference in ET or MPH when switched out to larger diameter pipes.
Last edited by DaveSammons; 04-17-2012 at 05:37 PM.
Well you can take the following for what it is...
I have run Zoomies on unblown engines for years...And I have done it knowing just about exactly what it costs me.
Now granted some engines may need to be tuned different, some cams/heads may react different. But in drag racing as long as it ran the number, I liked them better...easier to work on, sound bitchin, look bitchin...AND I have never had a problem with losing the amount of horsepower claimed by some...FYI...(tube size has alot to do with it)
Unlike most others, I am able to dyno without mufflers...to run the exhaust exactly how it will be run in the boat.
I have been reluctant to post the following, but figured it was time to let those who have questions in on at least what I have learned...so like it or not...I think there will be some information learned...stuff here that even might make the "experts" go HMMMM!
First up...
Our example in this case is a pretty staightforward 500 inch BBC, aluminum heads, Roller cam(.785 lift), Nice topend pieces, 13.5 to 1, Hilborn stack injectors with a vertex mag...engine was built to go circle racing...
These first numbers show where we ended up with the stepped Leach headers that all the monkey see/monkey do boys run on the Sprint Boats these days...
So we have a maximum HP number of 794.6 at 6800 and the torque peaked at 687 at 5400.
I really like this format because you can see an average of what the numbers are from 4800 on up. Very handy especially in a sprint boat application.
Next up 2.25 Zoomies...
We see our maximum HP came in at 785, but we had to stretch it out to 7100, peak torque pretty close 684 at 5500...but look how the torque numbers change between the 2 on the way up...big advantage to the leach headers...16 ft+ pound of torque on the column average...IMHO Torque is what moves the boat...most would disagree. 14hp on the average...not a ton...
And just for fun...a 30 year old set of shortened bassetts...
This can't be! A worn out set of Bassets within 2 HP and under 5 Ft Pds of torque versus a 1500.00 header...HUH?
Well, if you look at all the numbers(and I hope you all do, cause you can come up with alot of interesting theories) the Leach's are better by a bit and probably worth running(but for the price diff?) versus the Bassetts, but it is interesting in what most people get their heads wrapped around in it terms of overall hp and torque like you would read in an advertisement or one of the Car Comic books, that they are pretty close!! Remember to that the engine was tuned for the Leach's...could there be more hp/torque coaxed out of the thing for the other headers with some tuning??? Maybe???? Love to show ya what a set of Lemons do...But, maybe another time!
If you think about it the modern unblown dragboat that runs no quicker than 9.00's spends it life with the new deadwater starts in the 6000-7500 range...Maybe more on the low end depending on prop burn, Are the zommies gonna kill that much HP/torque...ya probably couldn't feel it if you had the tune up right...so for a lake boat? I say Zoomie away!!!
Hope some of this was useful!!!
Dave
Grich??? Grich is that you??? Dave you need to spend less time with crusty... seriously...
"How do you tell Jerry and Rayzor apart at the races? ..............Rayzor is wearing deck shoes, sunglasses, white shirt with gold and black stripped epaulets and a Captain's hat........ Jerry has the camera." GN7
http://www.gn-racing.com/
http://site.enduro300.com/Home_Page.php
It"s strange you say that...just last week I made Tom Farner drive me to the parts store and told VanBeenan if he wanted me to go to lunch, he'd have to buy...and I find myself wearing sweatpants alot more often...You could be right, my friendGrich??? Grich is that you??? Dave you need to spend less time with crusty... seriously...
(insert comment here) well there goes the neighborhoodIt"s strange you say that...just last week I made Tom Farner drive me to the parts store and told VanBeenan if he wanted me to go to lunch, he'd have to buy...and I find myself wearing sweatpants alot more often...You could be right, my friend
Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall. Torque determines the size of the hole you make.
Dave, what a fantastic post! It's so great to have some actual numbers to work off of. This really cuts through all the guesswork. It's interesting how close the Zoomies are to the headers. At 6000 rpm, they are within 1.5 hp of the Leach's. They lose slightly more above that, but as you mentioned, the engine wasn't tuned for the Zoomies. Even so, the Zoomies didn't lose much.Well you can take the following for what it is...
I have run Zoomies on unblown engines for years...And I have done it knowing just about exactly what it costs me.
Now granted some engines may need to be tuned different, some cams/heads may react different. But in drag racing as long as it ran the number, I liked them better...easier to work on, sound bitchin, look bitchin...AND I have never had a problem with losing the amount of horsepower claimed by some...FYI...(tube size has alot to do with it)
Unlike most others, I am able to dyno without mufflers...to run the exhaust exactly how it will be run in the boat.
I have been reluctant to post the following, but figured it was time to let those who have questions in on at least what I have learned...so like it or not...I think there will be some information learned...stuff here that even might make the "experts" go HMMMM!
First up...
Our example in this case is a pretty staightforward 500 inch BBC, aluminum heads, Roller cam(.785 lift), Nice topend pieces, 13.5 to 1, Hilborn stack injectors with a vertex mag...engine was built to go circle racing...
These first numbers show where we ended up with the stepped Leach headers that all the monkey see/monkey do boys run on the Sprint Boats these days...
So we have a maximum HP number of 794.6 at 6800 and the torque peaked at 687 at 5400.
I really like this format because you can see an average of what the numbers are from 4800 on up. Very handy especially in a sprint boat application.
Next up 2.25 Zoomies...
We see our maximum HP came in at 785, but we had to stretch it out to 7100, peak torque pretty close 684 at 5500...but look how the torque numbers change between the 2 on the way up...big advantage to the leach headers...16 ft+ pound of torque on the column average...IMHO Torque is what moves the boat...most would disagree. 14hp on the average...not a ton...
And just for fun...a 30 year old set of shortened bassetts...
This can't be! A worn out set of Bassets within 2 HP and under 5 Ft Pds of torque versus a 1500.00 header...HUH?
Well, if you look at all the numbers(and I hope you all do, cause you can come up with alot of interesting theories) the Leach's are better by a bit and probably worth running(but for the price diff?) versus the Bassetts, but it is interesting in what most people get their heads wrapped around in it terms of overall hp and torque like you would read in an advertisement or one of the Car Comic books, that they are pretty close!! Remember to that the engine was tuned for the Leach's...could there be more hp/torque coaxed out of the thing for the other headers with some tuning??? Maybe???? Love to show ya what a set of Lemons do...But, maybe another time!
If you think about it the modern unblown dragboat that runs no quicker than 9.00's spends it life with the new deadwater starts in the 6000-7500 range...Maybe more on the low end depending on prop burn, Are the zommies gonna kill that much HP/torque...ya probably couldn't feel it if you had the tune up right...so for a lake boat? I say Zoomie away!!!
Hope some of this was useful!!!
Dave
I agree, Zoomie away.
Michael
Last edited by Michael1; 04-18-2012 at 09:39 PM.
When you ask more questions than you answer, and any question is followed by 3rd degree, then I will worry about you.It"s strange you say that...just last week I made Tom Farner drive me to the parts store and told VanBeenan if he wanted me to go to lunch, he'd have to buy...and I find myself wearing sweatpants alot more often...You could be right, my friend
Buy the way, the last 2 times I had lunch with Grumpy, HE BOUGHT! So its my guess he doesn't much care for you to come around and uses that as a deterant, or you owe him money.
Last edited by gn7; 04-18-2012 at 09:46 PM.
LINK:GN-RACING.COM
The problem with Obama jokes is that his worshippers don't think they are funny, and the rest of us don't think they are jokes
Please not while I am drinking coffee... I now have to change my shirt!It"s strange you say that...just last week I made Tom Farner drive me to the parts store and told VanBeenan if he wanted me to go to lunch, he'd have to buy...and I find myself wearing sweatpants alot more often...You could be right, my friend
"How do you tell Jerry and Rayzor apart at the races? ..............Rayzor is wearing deck shoes, sunglasses, white shirt with gold and black stripped epaulets and a Captain's hat........ Jerry has the camera." GN7
http://www.gn-racing.com/
http://site.enduro300.com/Home_Page.php
Try going to lunch 30 & 40 times. He bought for me the first 2 times as well!When you ask more questions than you answer, and any question is followed by 3rd degree, then I will worry about you.
Buy the way, the last 2 times I had lunch with Grumpy, HE BOUGHT! So its my guess he doesn't much care for you to come around and uses that as a deterant, or you owe him money.
"How do you tell Jerry and Rayzor apart at the races? ..............Rayzor is wearing deck shoes, sunglasses, white shirt with gold and black stripped epaulets and a Captain's hat........ Jerry has the camera." GN7
http://www.gn-racing.com/
http://site.enduro300.com/Home_Page.php
Quit making fun of his socks and maybe you'd fair a little better.Try going to lunch 30 & 40 times. He bought for me the first 2 times as well!
Ben, its time to come to terms with your relationship with Gritch. You have more money, and he doesn't really like you.Try going to lunch 30 & 40 times. He bought for me the first 2 times as well!
Just say'n
Last edited by gn7; 04-19-2012 at 12:30 PM.
The problem with Obama jokes is that his worshippers don't think they are funny, and the rest of us don't think they are jokes
Thanks for stating the obivous...Ben, its time to come to terms with your relationship with Gritch. You have no more money, and he doesn't really like you.
Just say'n
"How do you tell Jerry and Rayzor apart at the races? ..............Rayzor is wearing deck shoes, sunglasses, white shirt with gold and black stripped epaulets and a Captain's hat........ Jerry has the camera." GN7
http://www.gn-racing.com/
http://site.enduro300.com/Home_Page.php
My mistake. I keep forgetting. But there is an "N" in GriNch. And the name fitsThanks for stating the obivous...
The problem with Obama jokes is that his worshippers don't think they are funny, and the rest of us don't think they are jokes
Nice looking ride, you guy's are dealing with density altitude aswell, how about a pic of the fuel surge tank, i need to build one... Thanks for the participation.. Scott
- July 2009 475.jpg (100.6 KB)
- Scott lots of air here in the trees,altitude is 2700 ft.Hope this helps
Last edited by flatrat; 04-21-2012 at 05:41 AM.
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