Need A Little Direction On Which Way To Go Here...Need Engine builder input
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Need A Little Direction On Which Way To Go Here...Need Engine builder input

  1. #1
    Senior Member n8dawg's Avatar
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    Default Need A Little Direction On Which Way To Go Here...Need Engine builder input

    Testing the waters on a budget Big Block Chevy Build:

    After spending the better part of the day reading through numerous threads about budget builds, different cu. inches, and different combos. The best info I got was from SIX-OH-NINE…”I always have three questions I like to ask to figure out the best way to get an idea of how to go about a build: "What are your goals with the engine? What do you have to work with? and What kind of budget do you have to work with? I figure if you can answer those three... you can get a really good idea of what direction to go... and then get a good recipe for that combination.”

    The Boat: ’87 TX-19 Condor Gullwing. Bare hull with intake weighs 550lbs. Im working with a bare hull right now and want to turn it into a 2 seater hot rod. With some cruising (to local sand bar) and making passes.
    The Pump: B1 RACING- fresh Dominator pump with race prepped stainless BC impeller.
    Engine Goals: Just need to get back on the water. Need motor to last two or three seasons while I save up for a bad ass motor. But at the same time, I don’t want my boat to be no slouch!
    6000 RPM’s (on the motor), 11.1 to 13.1 comp. I want to run 100 octane and don't mind mixing some race fuel in if need be. Would also like to put a little NOS to it as well, nothing over a 200 shot. I know I need a bullet proof bottom end. I’d be happy with low to mid 90’s but really want to be knocking on that triple digit door if possible.
    What I Have To Work With: A ’00 454 H.O. Gen V, 4-bolt block. STD 4.25” Bore. Gen V flexplate, 2- Gen V crankshafts (hope one of ‘em is good), Oval Port Tunnel Ram, a pair of Holley 660 center squirters, MSD dist., coil, and 6-AL box. Aeromotive electric fuel pump & regulator with –8 lines. Headers will be run dry. I have no heads, no rotating assembly, and thats all the parts I have. (When I bought the boat it came with all this Gen V crap…I already know about the Gen V blocks and know it’s not anybodies first choice, but it’s a 4-bolt block, and theres gotta be a decent set of heads out there to run on it somewhere, right? Besides, I thought some of you engine builder/guru’s like to be challenged!)
    Budget: I work in the construction trade. Anybody who knows this trade knows that it is seasonal work, so as long as Im working I have money to throw at this boat but for right now I have $5000 set aside for a motor build or least to get a short block going. I have to get back on the water this summer so I have to stick pretty close to that number.

    Well that’s it…lay it on me! Tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly.
    Anybody have a good combo for this deal?. Am I dreaming thinking this can be done? Am I better off building this Gen V block on the mild side and saving up for something bigger down the road?
    I also like to take part in the assembly of my motors. Because I only trust myself and if something goes wrong I have only myself to blame. Nobody is going to pay more attention to detail of the assembly of my own motor than me.
    So all I really need is someone to do the machine work, balance, blueprint, and give it back to me for final assembly. And if any engine builder wants to take this on just let me know.

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  3. #2
    gn7
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    $5.00 says the 2 GEN V cranks are cast. They will work, but I would suggest hitting them with NOS on top of that compression. So if you are considering a new crank, might as well go with a 4.25 stroker. The fact that you have no rods or pistons means you could buy a complete rotating kit to build a 489/496.
    Nothing really wrong with the GEN 5. It has no fuel pump boss and will require an electric pump. Virtually all aftermarket heads will work with the GEN 5 block.
    Want is the make on the oval port manifold?
    Before you can go much further with getting ideas, you have to make a decision if you want to run one of the stock cranks.



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    Last edited by gn7; 04-05-2012 at 07:31 PM.

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    Senior Member 65BEAVER's Avatar
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    Im with gn7, you buy rods get them reconned. Or buy china stuff, get crank maged, ground whatever. Id be looking into rotating assembly. Flatlander has good deals. Is e-85 a option where your at? Might save some $ in fuel in the long run????
    Good luck with the build.

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  6. #4
    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    As has been mentioned, first look up the casting numbers from your two crankshafts,, they made a few different ones. If nothing else, I have a forged 502 crank here that would drop into that block, but if you are going to start spending money,, maybe a good rotating assembly is the best way to start.

    What horsepower do the jet pump charts say you need to spin the BC at 6000 RPM?

  7. #5
    Senior Member jimclauss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8dawg View Post
    Testing the waters on a budget Big Block Chevy Build:

    After spending the better part of the day reading through numerous threads about budget builds, different cu. inches, and different combos. The best info I got was from SIX-OH-NINE…”I always have three questions I like to ask to figure out the best way to get an idea of how to go about a build: "What are your goals with the engine? What do you have to work with? and What kind of budget do you have to work with? I figure if you can answer those three... you can get a really good idea of what direction to go... and then get a good recipe for that combination.”

    The Boat: ’87 TX-19 Condor Gullwing. Bare hull with intake weighs 550lbs. Im working with a bare hull right now and want to turn it into a 2 seater hot rod. With some cruising (to local sand bar) and making passes.
    The Pump: B1 RACING- fresh Dominator pump with race prepped stainless BC impeller.
    Engine Goals: Just need to get back on the water. Need motor to last two or three seasons while I save up for a bad ass motor. But at the same time, I don’t want my boat to be no slouch!
    6000 RPM’s (on the motor), 11.1 to 13.1 comp. I want to run 100 octane and don't mind mixing some race fuel in if need be. Would also like to put a little NOS to it as well, nothing over a 200 shot. I know I need a bullet proof bottom end. I’d be happy with low to mid 90’s but really want to be knocking on that triple digit door if possible.
    What I Have To Work With: A ’00 454 H.O. Gen V, 4-bolt block. STD 4.25” Bore. Gen V flexplate, 2- Gen V crankshafts (hope one of ‘em is good), Oval Port Tunnel Ram, a pair of Holley 660 center squirters, MSD dist., coil, and 6-AL box. Aeromotive electric fuel pump & regulator with –8 lines. Headers will be run dry. I have no heads, no rotating assembly, and thats all the parts I have. (When I bought the boat it came with all this Gen V crap…I already know about the Gen V blocks and know it’s not anybodies first choice, but it’s a 4-bolt block, and theres gotta be a decent set of heads out there to run on it somewhere, right? Besides, I thought some of you engine builder/guru’s like to be challenged!)
    Budget: I work in the construction trade. Anybody who knows this trade knows that it is seasonal work, so as long as Im working I have money to throw at this boat but for right now I have $5000 set aside for a motor build or least to get a short block going. I have to get back on the water this summer so I have to stick pretty close to that number.

    Well that’s it…lay it on me! Tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly.
    Anybody have a good combo for this deal?. Am I dreaming thinking this can be done? Am I better off building this Gen V block on the mild side and saving up for something bigger down the road?
    I also like to take part in the assembly of my motors. Because I only trust myself and if something goes wrong I have only myself to blame. Nobody is going to pay more attention to detail of the assembly of my own motor than me.
    So all I really need is someone to do the machine work, balance, blueprint, and give it back to me for final assembly. And if any engine builder wants to take this on just let me know.
    you can buy a whole new 496 rotating assembly for under $2000 for what you are trying to do. My little motor is a Gen V block in one of my race boats no problem.makes 700 hp / 7000 . stock 074 alu. heads
    Last edited by jimclauss; 04-05-2012 at 08:20 PM.

  8. #6
    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    I will toss in on this and get buried but here goes! With a (light) winger and a dominator pump done as you speak with a b/c cut impeller with the gen v crank no matter what you do it will probably be a grenade waiting to go off! It can be done and easily run triple digits with an educated foot and a tach attached to your'e forehead! gn-7 is correct about being cast cranks. I have one in my boat and will not let it spin over 6K. If it were me I would go mild on the build as far as cam and heads. Also take care of the block by keeping it easy on the temporary build. A good set of 049 heads to match the manifold, very mild cam, and most of all don't go off the hook on spring pressure! Keep your'e open or of the seat readings low and with a mild cam can basically act as a rev limiter when done right. You don't want to float the valves and beat on pistons but also you don't want to spin a cast crank into distruction mode either and with a b/c cut impeller thats going to be tough to do. Good luck M

  9. #7
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    I will toss in on this and get buried but here goes! With a (light) winger and a dominator pump done as you speak with a b/c cut impeller with the gen v crank no matter what you do it will probably be a grenade waiting to go off! It can be done and easily run triple digits with an educated foot and a tach attached to your'e forehead! gn-7 is correct about being cast cranks. I have one in my boat and will not let it spin over 6K. If it were me I would go mild on the build as far as cam and heads. Also take care of the block by keeping it easy on the temporary build. A good set of 049 heads to match the manifold, very mild cam, and most of all don't go off the hook on spring pressure! Keep your'e open or of the seat readings low and with a mild cam can basically act as a rev limiter when done right. You don't want to float the valves and beat on pistons but also you don't want to spin a cast crank into distruction mode either and with a b/c cut impeller thats going to be tough to do. Good luck M
    Thats the course I would take if you plan on running a stock cast crank.
    You can make all the power you really want to make with your existing t ram and carbs and a well set up set of 049 heads and a good matched cam.



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  10. #8
    Senior Member n8dawg's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for the input! I guess I could of saved everybody some time and just asked if the Gen V block was worth building to make some power. Because thats all I really care about, but I can't seem to find any info anywhere on a Gen V build that makes over 650hp.

    I'll run the numbers on the crankshafts tomorrow, just to see, but ya I think they're cast....and I DO know enough NOT to run a cast crank in a high perf. motor!

    I'm also cool with buying a rotating assembly, and maybe running a mild cam with nothing special heads for now...with the option to upgrade top end for some bigger HP numbers later on down the road.

    jimclauss: Im really interested in your build. If you can or would PM me with some more info on it Id appreciate it greatly!!

  11. #9
    gn7
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    The Gen block will handle as much power as any other BBC production 4 bolt main block. It easily good to 650+ with bolts in the main caps and heads. With studs, 850. You plan to make more than 850, we need to talk.



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  12. #10
    Senior Member n8dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    The Gen block will handle as much power as any other BBC production 4 bolt main block. It easily good to 650+ with bolts in the main caps and heads. With studs, 850. You plan to make more than 850, we need to talk.
    Good to know! Thank You!!! I like piece of mind, so probably stud it.

  13. #11
    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    I agree with studding any engine that will be intended to make a decent amount of rpm and power! Mains and heads alike. kind of a bitch on a splayed main deal but I have seen inner bolts studded and splayed outsides using bolts. I personally am not real happy with that idea as you have a stud and bolt tossed into a pulling match, my thoughts and could be wrong. Not that the gen-v is splayed be know means but I have seen guys take a 2 bolt main and have the aftermarket splayed 4 bolt caps with the block machined for 4 bolt do this?????M

  14. #12
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    I agree with studding any engine that will be intended to make a decent amount of rpm and power! Mains and heads alike. kind of a bitch on a splayed main deal but I have seen inner bolts studded and splayed outsides using bolts. I personally am not real happy with that idea as you have a stud and bolt tossed into a pulling match, my thoughts and could be wrong. Not that the gen-v is splayed be know means but I have seen guys take a 2 bolt main and have the aftermarket splayed 4 bolt caps with the block machined for 4 bolt do this?????M
    I don't know that I would call the stud and bolt being in a pull match. Even though the outers are on an angle they are all do the same basic job of holding the cap in place.
    Ford Cleveland 4 bolt blocks used different diameters with different torque as did 1959 Pontiac 389 4 bolt block. Still all trying to hold the cap in place.
    You have to look at the fastners on tha caps as being strings in a piano. One string puts hardly any strain on the pianos frame. But 88 of them will try to crush it.
    Look at the 427 Ford, LS Chevies, Ford Mod Cammers, and the 3rd Gen Hemi. All have cross bolts, but I would never let that stop me from using studs too.
    The main thing Mark, when the block is machined, the fastners you plan to run are in the block and torqued to the value you plan to run them.



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    you might want to check www.competitionproducts.com. look in the clearance-hot deals, there are some good prices.

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