"Double Homicide".....
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"Double Homicide".....

  1. #1
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    Default "Double Homicide".....

    Well I seem to have somehow created the Dr. Kevorikian for injection pumps.... Assisted suicides in the death of TWO Hilborn 150 pumps.... Double homicide in about 5 minutes or less run time, each.... Motor started fine, no prime required, idled, warmed up, whacked it a couple of times and hit the water.... Sounded OK at first, but then it just went downhill from there. The "Split Second" EGT showed "Double Green", as though it was OK, but as it turns out it was just pissing a stream out the nozzles, no misting, so there was plenty of raw, low pressure liquid fuel......
    I'll report back when/IF, I figure out why they died a horrible death. At $5-600. a shot, I'm really afraid to bolt another one on until I can be damn sure what caused it.....
    More details to follow.....
    Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

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  3. #2
    Senior Member hellnback's Avatar
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    wow dude you ARE good ......... j/k ....... hope you get it fixed
    It may be OLD ,it may be Slow ... but at least it's MOBILE !!!

  4. #3
    Senior Member Hi Tech Marine's Avatar
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    Are these new or used pumps? If they are brand new and never been broke in, you should loosen the front cover bolts till they are just snug, run the engine on the trailer for a few minutes a keep the revs up. Snug them a little more and do the same. The clearances on pumps these days are very tight and if you dont break them in on the flow bench, you need to break them in on the vehicle. If you pull apart the pumps you have that have gone bad, they are probably galled.

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  6. #4
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    Default Newer/older

    Quote Originally Posted by Hi Tech Marine View Post
    Are these new or used pumps? If they are brand new and never been broke in, you should loosen the front cover bolts till they are just snug, run the engine on the trailer for a few minutes a keep the revs up. Snug them a little more and do the same. The clearances on pumps these days are very tight and if you dont break them in on the flow bench, you need to break them in on the vehicle. If you pull apart the pumps you have that have gone bad, they are probably galled.
    The first one was very used. When it quit producing adequate pressure I figured it was it's time to give up... The second one had a few laps on it and used a different spacer/shaft set up. Both were properly clearanced as far as shaft end play/engagement, and the cam has .004 end play.... Both started easily at first, and gradually died after about 5 minutes run time.... The older one shows signs of wear inside, but the newer one still looks new inside?.. I'll have the motor back here soon, and I'll do some indicating as far as run out of the hex drive goes... The only parts that were reused were the center plate, (mounting), and the hex drive on the cam. This was the first time I've ran this gear drive, but everything looked normal as it went together. I even put a new idler gear bearing in it, just because I had one and didn't know the history of the old one.... The gear drive isn't excessively noisy or anything, but Gordy Jennings suggested I might be experiencing a "harmonic" from the gears that shakes the pump???
    All in all a very disappointing and expensive weekend....
    Ray
    PS Thanks to Dave Rankin for starting with the Pro Stock boats to make it a legal class for the Western Divisionals, I felt really shitty when we had to admit we were done, and left them with only 3 boats....
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

  7. #5
    Senior Member EVILFORCE's Avatar
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    Are these cam driven pumps?
    No Fool Like A Old Fool is there?

  8. #6
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    Default Yes...

    Quote Originally Posted by EVILFORCE View Post
    Are these cam driven pumps?
    Yes, driven with a 3/8ths hex shaft off a drive spud bolted to the front of the cam....
    Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

  9. #7
    Senior Member EVILFORCE's Avatar
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    What is your endplay on the cam?
    No Fool Like A Old Fool is there?

  10. #8
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    Default End play....

    Quote Originally Posted by EVILFORCE View Post
    What is your endplay on the cam?
    .004, measured with a depth mic from the mounting flange, THREE times....
    Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

  11. #9
    Senior Member EVILFORCE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneypit View Post
    .004, measured with a depth mic from the mounting flange, THREE times....
    Ray

    And they did not get cranked for a long time with the motor not running?
    No Fool Like A Old Fool is there?

  12. #10
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    Default Never dry.....

    Quote Originally Posted by EVILFORCE View Post
    And they did not get cranked for a long time with the motor not running?
    Well, what is a long time? We never cranked for more than 10-12 seconds, in 3 different sessions, with 30-40 seconds in between, (a routine I've used for 20+ years), to build a little oil pressure. AND, the fuel shut off was ON, which also allows the system to create enough fuel pressure to fire without any priming once the mag is ungrounded....Which it did with both pumps, fired right up.....
    Believe me, I'm racking my brain to find something, anything, that was done different this time, from all the other times.....
    Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

  13. #11
    Senior Member Hi Tech Marine's Avatar
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    Look for an air leak on the inlet side.

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneypit View Post
    PS Thanks to Dave Rankin for starting with the Pro Stock boats to make it a legal class for the Western Divisionals, I felt really shitty when we had to admit we were done, and left them with only 3 boats....
    which boat was yours???

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    Default I appreciate the input....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hi Tech Marine View Post
    Look for an air leak on the inlet side.
    OK, but this is a "gravity feed" type deal with the tank, (fuel level), considerably higher than the pump which, I believe, would leak if there was any type leak in the #12 SS hose. I remember a time at a Burley motel where the line was kinked by an over zealous application of cable ties and it filled the back of the boat with race gas, just sitting there.... There entire circuit will be replaced, not because I know it's bad, but because I feel it's time from a "preventive maintenance" aspect....

    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    which boat was yours???
    My motor, Jeremiah's boat, the PS11.... The motor was/is new. A motor I/we (the PS89 team) started buying parts for in 2007, and now has come to fruition... Since Mike Lee was tied up with prior plans, Jeremiah agreed to run the engine in the PS 11. Although these flatbottoms may all "look" alike, it was quite a project, time, and $$$$, to make everything fit/work in a boat that usually runs a carburetor... Tank change, gear change, tach change, EGT sensor, etc etc...

    All I can say is "We tried".... I'm pretty sure we tried as hard as any team to make the call, but the newer pump died on Saturday morning during a quick "test session", and quite frankly, even if we had another pump I would have hesitated to try it for fear of making it a "Triple Homicide" weekend.... I have had several opinions as to "why", but it will all come down to some careful inspection once the engine is back at the shop. Jeremiah has a bunch of work to get the boat back to the 95 MPH class he intends to run at Burley, as well as some hull maintenance....
    Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

  16. #14
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    Ray, PM me your number and a good time to call you and we can bounce some ideas off of each others head.

    Paul

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