what would you think?????
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what would you think?????

  1. #1
    Senior Member TTspectra20's Avatar
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    Default what would you think?????

    i'm not going to mention any names as of now but here are the facts....

    recently bought a twin turbo spectra that was supposed to have 23 hrs on a new $9700 built motor.
    the po is an honest man with plenty of money and as far as he knows this is true...
    i have 2 copys of the invoice 1 from the po and 1 faxed from the builder both are identical.
    the block and heads are a 1970 LS6
    the invoice calls for ...

    crane roller rockers CRN 13767-16
    crane hyd roller lifters CRN 13532-16

    i am in the process of stripping the motor down to a long block and sending everything off to polish and powdercoat and changing a few things that's when i noticed something fishy was going on....

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG00459-20120424-1105.jpg 
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ID:	158374 not crane gold roller rockers
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	158375 not hyd roller lifters

    so then i went back to the invoice and that's when shit got really fishy.
    calls for ...

    JE piston's 4.56 x 1.457 24CCID

    that's when i said out loud to myself "how in the hell could you possibly fit those pistons in a stock GM block????"

    so i called the builder and said " hey bud this is that guy that bought that twin turbo spectra you built the motor for, i talked to you a couple weeks ago"
    he says in a very friendly tone " sure i remember hows it goin, how can i help you"
    i asked him if he possibly gave me the wrong invoice even though the po's name is on it and went to explain why i thought that was possible
    that's when the tone changed and he scrambled to get off the phone stating that he didn't have time to go over the invoice and that he'd call me back tomorrow. this was on tue or wed.

    so i called the origianl owner as well as tom scahill who built the original motor 30 years ago and they both said that the motor has "blue" roller rockers "can't remember what brand they said", corrillo rods, and venolia pistons that were 8-1 with a closed chamber head.
    then i called the po who i bought the boat from and he said that the motor ran fine and only had 400 hrs on it but he took it to this guy that was supposed to know turbo motors just to tune it up.
    2 weeks later he called to say hey what's going on with my boat haven't heard anything from you in a couple weeks and the builder stated to him that the block and heads were at the machine shop and he'd be looking at around $9k.
    the po is non confrontational and just said ok whater i guess but it seemed fine to me and then authorized the work. after he already pulled his motor and had it ripped apart and at the machine shop.
    is that even legal? and $9700 to rebuild the motor using the same block, crank, and heads, and cam ???????
    i don't want to speculate but i'm pretty sure all he did was re-ring and bearing the motor judging by what i see and how this seems to be going.
    anyway what do you guys think about that and is there anything i or the po can do "if he's willing" ?

    needless to say ... part of my decision to purchase was the fact that the motor was just built with all these new high quality parts.
    Last edited by TTspectra20; 04-29-2012 at 02:05 PM.

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  3. #2
    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Does the invoice reference the block serial #, or anything that would positively identify the engine in question to the invoice?

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    steelcomp was here
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    Those "look" like the Isky 204-96 rocker which is a really good rocker...not saying that changes anything, just giving you another possible reference point.
    It sounds like there's been some serious miscommunication here. Hope it's nothing underhanded.
    What's the casting number on the heads?
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 04-29-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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    Senior Member TTspectra20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budweiser View Post
    Does the invoice reference the block serial #, or anything that would positively identify the engine in question to the invoice?
    no just the name and address of the po and business and an invoice number.

    the po has never taken anything there before or after and the builder said that the motor came out of my boat , he built it and put it back in my boat.
    also a well known and reputable shop that the po used every other time before and after confirmed that that he took it to that shop for a tune up and ended up with that bill.

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    Senior Member shan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    Those "look" like the Isky 204-96 rocker which is a really good rocker...not saying that changes anything, just giving you another possible reference point.
    That's what I was thinking. Rather have those than the Cranes.
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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTspectra20 View Post
    no just the name and address of the po and business and an invoice number.

    the po has never taken anything there before or after and the builder said that the motor came out of my boat , he built it and put it back in my boat.
    also a well known and reputable shop that the po used every other time before and after confirmed that that he took it to that shop for a tune up and ended up with that bill.
    It would be very, very unlikely that someone would take something in for a tune up,= and end up with a disassembled engine, with zero communication from either party. I'm guessing there's more to that story.
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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    That's what I was thinking. Rather have those than the Cranes.
    Heck yeah. I have a brand new set here I've been "saving".
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    Senior Member TTspectra20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    Those "look" like the Isky 204-96 rocker which is a really good rocker...not saying that changes anything, just giving you another possible reference point.
    It sounds like there's been some serious miscommunication here. Hope it's nothing underhanded.
    What's the casting number on the heads?
    that's correct isky is what scahill said was in there.
    highly doubt miscommunication has anything to do with it at all since ive talked to everyone twice from the original owner of 40 years, tom scahill the original builder installer, the po, the place that's always serviced the boat, and the builder.

  11. #9
    Senior Member TTspectra20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    That's what I was thinking. Rather have those than the Cranes.
    would you rather have flat tappets than hyd roller lifters as well. or 40 year old internals than brand spanking new ones.
    or thought you bought a brand new motor only to find out that it was just a freshened up one? or the uncertainty if it even was freshened up at all?
    judging from the felpro gaskets, arp head bolts, and condition of said gaskets and bolts i'm pretty sure he freshened up the motor.

    but still $9700 to feshen up a motor?
    i want to get to the bottom of this and if somethings not right here makesure this doesnt happen to someone else.
    i'm looking for advice on how to go about dealing with this or should i just say fuck it and drop it and possibly allow this to happen to other people?
    Last edited by TTspectra20; 04-29-2012 at 01:24 PM.

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    Senior Member TTspectra20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    It would be very, very unlikely that someone would take something in for a tune up,= and end up with a disassembled engine, with zero communication from either party. I'm guessing there's more to that story.
    like i said that's what the po said as well as the marine place that usually worked on the boat confirmed that.

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    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTspectra20 View Post
    no just the name and address of the po and business and an invoice number.
    I can't believe there isn't anything referencing the serial numbers on the invoice. It's one thing to drop a shirt off at the dry cleaners without positively identifying your property and a whole different story with an engine (or car, jewelry, pet, etc). Never leave anything of value with anyone or company without a written receipt or quote that positively identifies your property. Mix ups happen, accidents happen, and yes... shady people happen too. Who knows what the real story is in your case. I always ask for the "broken" parts to be returned to me as well.

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    Definately a problem but you have no beef with the engine shop. You didnt pay for the work.

    Take everything up 100% with the PO. If there was a ripoff he got ripped off by the shop and you were ripped off by him.
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    gn7
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    Definitely Isky rockers.
    Not sure how you know the lifters are solid by looking. Do the valves have a lash?
    You only point out that they are "solid" not hyd in the first post, then mention hyd roller later. Definitely not rollers. Does the invoice say "hyd roller?"

    Something is strange about the whole deal. If I had a boat with a engine that "ran fine" and took in for a "tune up", I sure as hell would agree to a 9700.00 rebuilt without some pretty good evidence as to why I need to rebuild, as well as a bunch of upgrade parts.

    One thing is for sure. Those J.E.s specs you posted not only will never fit in a stock block, they are a custom piston based on the pin height. Not a rebuild off the self psiton. And a 24 CC dome is a little more than anybody would want in a twin turbo deal that was going to run on pump gas.

    Not sure which direction you go with this, but that invoice if it states a roller cam, crane rockers and those pistons is not the parts in that engine.



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    Last edited by gn7; 04-29-2012 at 01:40 PM.

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    Senior Member TTspectra20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Definitely Isky rockers.
    Not sure how you know the lifters are solid by looking. Do the valves have a lash?
    You only point out that they are "solid" not hyd in the first post, then mention hyd roller later. Definitely not rollers. Does the invoice say "hyd roller?"

    Something is strange about the whole deal. If I had a boat with a engine that "ran fine" and took in for a "tune up", I sure as hell would agree to a 9700.00 rebuilt without some pretty good evidence as to why I need to rebuild, as well as a bunch of upgrade parts.

    One thing is for sure. Those J.E.s specs you posted not only will never fit in a stock block, they are a custom piston based on the pin height. Not a rebuild off the self psiton. And a 24 CC dome is a little more than anybody would want in a twin turbo deal that was going to run on pump gas.

    Not sure which direction you go with this, but that invoice if it states a roller cam, crane rockers and those pistons is not the parts in that engine.
    the invoice states around $700 crane hyd roller lifters which they obviously are not.

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