Pulled dist, what causes ....
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Pulled dist, what causes ....

  1. #1
    Senior Member Franger's Avatar
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    Default Pulled dist, what causes ....

    I ran the boat on the lake for the first time today. Oil pressure 70psi at 1000 - 1200 rpm @ 120 degrees on the water temp guage. After it warmed up to 140+ degrees I made 4 WOT passes. After those passes the oil pressure was 25psi @ 3,000 rpm, I cruised the boat 1/4 mile back to ramp @ 1,500 and let it sit for 15-20 minutes. Put my son behind the wheel and as we idled out at 800 rpm the oil pressure was 8 to 10 psi, I had him just idle @ 800-900 rpm for about 200 yards and no change so we turned back, I had him hold 1,200 for about 10 or so seconds and still showed only 8 to 10 psi oil pressure, it's a brand new Autometer pro comp guage.

    As soon as I got home I pulled the valve covers, no metal. Next I pulled the oil filter and drained into a stainless steel pan then checked with a magnet, no metal. I slowly poured oil into another container to see what if anything was on the bottom of the pan....... I saw flakes of what looks like bronze .... like from the dist gear maybe?

    Next I pulled the dist which is a brand new MSD 85551 with a bronze gear that the parts guy said was for the dist (bought both at the same place in Sacramento when I was down for CFW NYD) THEN .... I noticed on the dist at the top of the upper o-ring a bunch of chunks, yes "chunks" .... 6 or so about 1/8th the size of a BB ...... and bronze. The pic shows where the shit was. Isn't where the arrows are.... the lifter valley? How do bronze chunks get there and where would they come from???

    Anyone have any ideas, I need some help here guys. BTW, there was no bronze flakes under the valve covers, only in what I poured from the filter.
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    Last edited by Franger; 05-09-2012 at 09:19 AM.

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    Senior Member SoldHondaBoughtHondo's Avatar
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    Spun main bearing?
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Two things that I can think of with a bronze or copper color, the gear and bearings. The oil pressure probably indicates a bearing problem. What does the distributor gear look like?

    What is the history of the engine? Next step may be to cut the oil filter open and see how much junk is in it, but I am pretty safe in saying you need to pull the engine and start inspecting bearings. Even if it's not already damaged, you need to get it apart and clean all debris.

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    Senior Member whiskeybent hondo's Avatar
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    Bummer!

    You said you pulled the dist out, but did the gear look good? If it did I agree the bearings need an inspection.

    When I ordered my MSD pro billet dist I didn't know that it came with a gear already so I ordered a seperate one. I'll try to find it tommorow and check the part number.

    Dumb question but what kind of oil are you running?

    I've been told it only takes a couple passes to hammer the shit out of multi viscosity oil to the point the motor lacks oil pressure. My boss did that with his LS6 schiada flat. He thought the bearings were wiped out but it was the oil. He put in straight weight and never had a problem with oil pressure again. I run kendal straight 50wt....so far so good.

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    Default Pull it....

    Sorry to say the only avenue you have at this point is to pull the engine and inspect the bottom end... Regardless of any distributor gear wear/damage, if the engine is running, the distributor gear is turning the distributor AND the oil pump. Unless you have a serious problem with the oil being polluted by excess fuel, or you're running very thin oil, you have something going on with the bearings.... Dumping the filter won't really tell you a lot because the oil that comes out easily has been through the filter. (center hole, automotive style filter).... If that is what you're using, cut it open and look in between the folds for junk.... BTW, not all bearing material is magnetic, just the basic shell, the rest is softer non ferrous alloys....
    Ray
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    Probably should look at the bearings like these guys said, but I have had unexplained oil pressure problems before and changed the filter and they went away.

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    Senior Member Franger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    Two things that I can think of with a bronze or copper color, the gear and bearings. The oil pressure probably indicates a bearing problem. What does the distributor gear look like?

    What is the history of the engine? Next step may be to cut the oil filter open and see how much junk is in it, but I am pretty safe in saying you need to pull the engine and start inspecting bearings. Even if it's not already damaged, you need to get it apart and clean all debris.
    Hey Barry,

    What I saw didn't look like copper, and wouldn't being bronze rule out bearings? Or are bearings bronze under bearing surface? I thought they were copper. Anyway, the bronze looking flakes were from pepper size to maybe 1/32" wide. I'm just not sure what else in a motor is bronze besides the dist gear?

    The gear doesn't look like it's chewed up at all

    The engine was zero time when I got it, built by a 71 year old guy in the Phoenix area who's been around a long time (Lingenfelter, Mondello's, Jocko's Porting etc ) I started it with water from a bucket and ran it for about 30 min, didn't rev it until it was warmed to 140* It's 12:5 1 comp roller cam, lifters, springs. The rockers are PRW SS... fresh engine. (builder has used the SS PRW rockers on more than 10 engines and said no problems, I never heard of em but that doesn't mean anything)

    I'm cutting filter open today, would a collapsed filter cause the oil pressure issue?

    Regardless of what filter shows I'm pulling engine, will post what I find.... Thanks for the input Barry, much appreciated

    David

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    Senior Member Franger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeybent hondo View Post
    Bummer!

    You said you pulled the dist out, but did the gear look good? If it did I agree the bearings need an inspection.

    When I ordered my MSD pro billet dist I didn't know that it came with a gear already so I ordered a seperate one. I'll try to find it tommorow and check the part number.

    Dumb question but what kind of oil are you running?

    I've been told it only takes a couple passes to hammer the shit out of multi viscosity oil to the point the motor lacks oil pressure. My boss did that with his LS6 schiada flat. He thought the bearings were wiped out but it was the oil. He put in straight weight and never had a problem with oil pressure again. I run kendal straight 50wt....so far so good.
    Hi Eddie,

    The gear doesn't look chewed up at all, no missing chunks.

    The bronze gear has "00" on it MSD says it's the correct gear for my cam.

    The oil that the builder (and other builders) recommended for break in is Valvoline VR1 20-50 and I added Kirbin zinc additive.

    Oh well .... time to pull engine, Memorial Day is right around the corner

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    Senior Member SoldHondaBoughtHondo's Avatar
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    Water temp isn't near as important as oil temp. If you run a plugged oil filter bypass cold oil will get you starved bearings even with a good oil filter. Run a junk filter and you will get this along with the need for other repairs.
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
    guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free
    education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free
    utilities, and only law enforcement has guns. And believe it or
    not, such a place does, indeed, exist: It's called prison."

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio
    Maricopa County Sheriff's Office

  12. #10
    Senior Member Franger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldHondaBoughtHondo View Post
    Water temp isn't near as important as oil temp. If you run a plugged oil filter bypass cold oil will get you starved bearings even with a good oil filter. Run a junk filter and you will get this along with the need for other repairs.
    Have you no pity for a guy who's already in the dirt .... merciless I say just merciless .... just kidding

    The bypass is plugged so what you are saying could have and probably did contribute to whatever happened, in any case engine is coming out. Thanks for the input, I do appreciate the help.

    David

  13. #11
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    Drop pan and look at #4 main.

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    You said you have a "new" gauge?? Mechanical or electric? If mechanical you could have something in the line?? If it's electric it could be the sender?? The wrong sender will cause issues as well! just something to check BEFORE you tear it apart!

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    Senior Member Franger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PS&B1 View Post
    You said you have a "new" gauge?? Mechanical or electric? If mechanical you could have something in the line?? If it's electric it could be the sender?? The wrong sender will cause issues as well! just something to check BEFORE you tear it apart!
    Mechanical guage.

    With what looks like heat darkened bronze chunks around the top of the dist from the intake valley I think the engine needs to come out, better to be safe than sorry. Plus, I never liked the idea of the crank being 10 10. I'm thinking I need to find a better crank and some good H beam rods anyway. My plan was to do that this next winter but since I'm where I'm at .... might as well bite the bullet now
    Last edited by Franger; 05-09-2012 at 01:47 PM.

  16. #14
    Senior Member Franger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    Drop pan and look at #4 main.
    Will do Bob.....

    Hey, did I read somewhere that you were planning on a Goldwing road trip to Alaska soon

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