454 turns over slow after new bearings?
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454 turns over slow after new bearings?

  1. #1
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    Default 454 turns over slow after new bearings?

    Problems today! I went to try and fire up my 454 motor on the stand today and I have an issue.

    Let me first say that this is the first time I have been in the bottom end of a big block.

    To start off, I put a new crank in it and also replaced the main and rod bearings.

    everything else stayed the same and the heads and pistons never left the block.

    Plastic gauge and clearances were all checked and within specs when assembled.

    I have a stock cam in it and alignment for the timing chain marks were in line when assembled.

    Now the issue. Primed the oil system and set timing. Went to start it on the stand and it turns so slow it wont fire.

    Almost like its binding up? The starter was old so I picked up a new one and same thing?

    I sure dont want to take this back apart but I think I might need to.

    I check the timing multiple times and I may have had it 180 out at first but after I changed it it still turned over the same.

    Any thoughts?

    One last thing, I am trying to power this thing with two sets of jumper cables from a rig to the motor. I know its a bit white trash but I

    figured it should be ok just to get this thing up and running for test purposes.

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    Senior Member 67weiman's Avatar
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    The jumper cables may be your problem not getting enough power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spectra 224 View Post
    Problems today! I went to try and fire up my 454 motor on the stand today and I have an issue.

    Let me first say that this is the first time I have been in the bottom end of a big block.

    To start off, I put a new crank in it and also replaced the main and rod bearings.

    everything else stayed the same and the heads and pistons never left the block.

    Plastic gauge and clearances were all checked and within specs when assembled.

    I have a stock cam in it and alignment for the timing chain marks were in line when assembled.

    Now the issue. Primed the oil system and set timing. Went to start it on the stand and it turns so slow it wont fire.

    Almost like its binding up? The starter was old so I picked up a new one and same thing?

    I sure dont want to take this back apart but I think I might need to.

    I check the timing multiple times and I may have had it 180 out at first but after I changed it it still turned over the same.

    Any thoughts?

    One last thing, I am trying to power this thing with two sets of jumper cables from a rig to the motor. I know its a bit white trash but I

    figured it should be ok just to get this thing up and running for test purposes.
    Before you get it running, why were the crank and bearings replaced? Why was the crank replaced?

    If there is any debris left in the oil passages in the block, your replacement crankshaft may be doomed from the first fire up.

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    Senior Member bville's Avatar
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    Before you go any further pull the plugs and turn the engine over with a torque wrench and see how much it takes to turn it over.

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    New here Beer:30's Avatar
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    Default Timing

    Quote Originally Posted by bville View Post
    Before you go any further pull the plugs and turn the engine over with a torque wrench and see how much it takes to turn it over.
    Exactly what I was going to say. Make sure it spins WITHOUT compression before adding compression.

    Put 7 plugs back in (if all is well without them) and leave #1 out of the hole. Tap starter with your finger over the plug hole. When it pushes your finger, you are near TDC #1, which is where you want it for your timing. THEN, with a hand wrench or ratchet, put your balancer (crankshaft) on the timing mark you want - let's say 8 or 10 degrees BTDC (8 or 10 degrees advanced). NOW set your distributor with the rotor pointed to #1 plug wire on the cap. Before putting the cap back on fully, look carefully inside and set the trigger (magnets, points, hall, whatever) where the distributor is SET TO FIRE. This way, you are around 8 or 10 degrees static and should be perfectly safe for the motor.

    I've done it this way for decades and always start a motor on 1 or 2 rotations, as long as fuel is primed.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
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    OK, good news. Turned over fine with plugs out. Went over timing again and made a minor adjustment to the distributor. Changed up power feed from the samurai to the ford f150 and she fired up.

    Bearings and crank were replaced because of excess end play. Thrust was toast. I did go over the block and clean everything out that I could get to in order to not kill the bearings with old debris.

    Next time I need to buy some proper wires for this type of thing. I learn something new every day!
    Last edited by spectra 224; 07-22-2012 at 06:23 PM.

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    Thumbs up

    Great love to hear good news every now and then!!!! LOL

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    Just a couple questions ?

    Did you bottle brush all the oil holes in the crank and wash it well before you put it in ?
    What did you do about the crank balancing ?

    Why was the thrust bearing worn out ?
    If you ain't the lead dog the view is always the same !

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSteve View Post
    Just a couple questions ?

    Did you bottle brush all the oil holes in the crank and wash it well before you put it in ?
    What did you do about the crank balancing ?

    Why was the thrust bearing worn out ?
    The crank was put in a parts washing machine when I arrived at the shop to pick it up. The fancy ones with hot water and rotating spray like a dish washer!

    I also cleaned it again with brake clean before I placed it in block for assembly. As far as cleaning the holes with a brush, no they looked good so I just left it with the brake clean and air from the compressor.

    For balancing I did not do a thing. I did not pull the rods or pistons and everything is bone stock for this build so I took the advise of the machine shop and did not balance anything.

    Why the thrust was wiped out, who knows! It came out of a motor home and from what I have heard from other mechanics and the internet is that the torque converter was notorious for swelling and putting psi on the crank and wiping out the thrust! I tend to believe this is true so I will go with that for my bearing problems.

    This could all be wrong the way I did it but its all stock and going in a day cruiser. Should be fine in my opinion but I know that fancy motor builders always look at things from a different angle. As well as they should because race type applications motors live a different life and will fail very fast if not built correctly.

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    Default I'd like to see that!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by spectra 224 View Post
    The crank was put in a parts washing machine when I arrived at the shop to pick it up. The fancy ones with hot water and rotating spray like a dish washer!

    I also cleaned it again with brake clean before I placed it in block for assembly. As far as cleaning the holes with a brush, no they looked good so I just left it with the brake clean and air from the compressor.

    For balancing I did not do a thing. I did not pull the rods or pistons and everything is bone stock for this build so I took the advise of the machine shop and did not balance anything.

    Why the thrust was wiped out, who knows! It came out of a motor home and from what I have heard from other mechanics and the internet is that the torque converter was notorious for swelling and putting psi on the crank and wiping out the thrust! I tend to believe this is true so I will go with that for my bearing problems.

    This could all be wrong the way I did it but its all stock and going in a day cruiser. Should be fine in my opinion but I know that fancy motor builders always look at things from a different angle. As well as they should because race type applications motors live a different life and will fail very fast if not built correctly.
    I think it's a safe prediction to say this project will be back for more advice.......
    Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

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    Default Nope....

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Ray, you've never heard of converter balloning? Really?

    I've seen all sorts of internal damage, but never seen one swell up.....
    Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

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    "For balancing I did not do a thing. I did not pull the rods or pistons and everything is bone stock for this build so I took the advise of the machine shop and did not balance anything."

    Balancing is one of the cheapest things you do to a motor. Also one of the best things you can do to it. If your machine shop did not recommend it I would find a new one. Maybe it was due to something you told them. Maybe they thought it would never see 3000 rpm. Good Luck. You will need it.
    No Fool Like A Old Fool is there?

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    Senior Member EVILFORCE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneypit View Post
    I've seen all sorts of internal damage, but never seen one swell up.....
    Ray
    OH YA Ray. They swell up so big they start coming out the bottom of the bellhousing.
    No Fool Like A Old Fool is there?

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