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Magneto or MSD?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    Default Magneto or MSD?

    I have a mild 11:1 BBC in my jet boat right now (well...on a stand next to it...as usual)..... Winter plans are a 15 or 16:1 505bbc (whatever compression ratio will work with 93 octane and a meth injection kit). Shooting for the 800hp range on motor. If that doesn't get me over the 100mph lake boat number, then it'll get a little nitrous. Maybe 150.

    Currently I have an MSD 7al2, Pro Power coil, and Billet distributor that has never been wired in this boat. I'd like to keep my wiring as simple as possible, and also keep things as neat as possible. It's no show boat, but I don't want it cluttered up if it's not needed.

    Should I keep my setup, and just hide it all as best I can, or trade/sell and get a magneto?

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  3. #2
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lildave View Post
    I have a mild 11:1 BBC in my jet boat right now (well...on a stand next to it...as usual)..... Winter plans are a 15 or 16:1 505bbc (whatever compression ratio will work with 93 octane and a meth injection kit). Shooting for the 800hp range on motor. If that doesn't get me over the 100mph lake boat number, then it'll get a little nitrous. Maybe 150.

    Currently I have an MSD 7al2, Pro Power coil, and Billet distributor that has never been wired in this boat. I'd like to keep my wiring as simple as possible, and also keep things as neat as possible. It's no show boat, but I don't want it cluttered up if it's not needed.

    Should I keep my setup, and just hide it all as best I can, or trade/sell and get a magneto?
    You have bigger problems than choosing between a mag and a MSD. Did you mean to say on METH and a 93 injection kit just so you can say its on gas?



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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    No. I meant it how I said it.


    I am young and dumb (not dumb, but not on par with many of you guys) but I have seen several high compression applications running 93 octane with a methanol injection kit and be equal to (power wise) or even gain power when they switch over from race gas due to lower intake temps. If I'm wrong (and I very well may be), and 93 + meth injection will not support 15:1, then please set me straight before I waste money on parts.

    I'm not running race gas in a lake boat, and I don't want to rely on E-85 being around forever.

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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    I'll spend the extra up front money and boost it before I run race gas.

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    Senior Member EVILFORCE's Avatar
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    If you do not want to run Race Gas in a Lake Boat then build it with about 10-1 compression if it is N/A. You go to injecting stuff where will that leave your tune??? I takes some big bucks to build 800 hp N/A. And I would use the MSD stuff.
    No Fool Like A Old Fool is there?

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lildave View Post
    No. I meant it how I said it.


    I am young and dumb (not dumb, but not on par with many of you guys) but I have seen several high compression applications running 93 octane with a methanol injection kit and be equal to (power wise) or even gain power when they switch over from race gas due to lower intake temps. If I'm wrong (and I very well may be), and 93 + meth injection will not support 15:1, then please set me straight before I waste money on parts.

    I'm not running race gas in a lake boat, and I don't want to rely on E-85 being around forever.
    You'd be better off running e85.
    You can't take a perfectly tuned engine on 93 and dump enough meth into it to raise the detonation limit high enough to support 15 to one and not screw over the A/F if you don't add air. How do you plan to add the additional air into the engine when the MASSIVE amounts of meth are introduced to the engine. If ALL the available air is use to burn the "properly tuned" amount of 93, then you need ADDITIONAL air to burn the meth you toss in there. You're not going to get away with some tiny ass little spit of meth with 15 to 1 deal.
    This isn't some boosted deal where your down on cylinder pressure when not boosted and injecting it as needed when the cylinder pressures jump. Its going to be high right off idle. Going to spray meth right off idle.

    I doubt you could even drive the thing without spraying the meth, and you have no additional air to allow for the additional fuel?



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    Last edited by gn7; 08-26-2012 at 05:25 PM.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVILFORCE View Post
    If you do not want to run Race Gas in a Lake Boat then build it with about 10-1 compression if it is N/A. You go to injecting stuff where will that leave your tune??? I takes some big bucks to build 800 hp N/A. And I would use the MSD stuff.


    With the amount of meth he will have to throw at that thing, he'll prbably need a MSD 44 just to light it off.



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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    Will dual E-85 dominators support a 15 or 16:1 505" deal?


    Rough draft plans are.... tall deck 427, 100 over, 4.25 crank, 16:1 pistons, 6.800 rods, Brodix BB2 heads, dual 1050 dominators



    If I'm going wrong, I'm all ears

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    "Need For Speed" Gearhead's Avatar
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    Dave,
    IMHO, Bob and Evil are steering you straight. 1) It is a little harder than you think to get 15 or 16:1 CR out of a 505". Possible, but a pretty tight chambered deal. 2) Once you exceed the 10:1 CR range you need to be thinking about some form of improoved fuel be it racing gasoline or methanol. 14:1 and better, you need to be looking at C-14 or equivalent or an injected alky unit. 3) I don't know why you are so adament against racing fuel. It is kind of a pay me now or pay me later kind of a situation. The racing fuel will allow you to run increased compression and make increased HP. A lower octane fuel on the compressions you mentioned will cause detonation which will result in a lower power output and damaged parts. For me the fuel is the cheaper part of the equation in relation to a good engine and the money and effort put forth to put it together.

    You mentioned pressurized system. Many of these systems utilize intercoolers and such to keep the inlet and resulting cylinder temps down, but on a max effort deal such as what Haas and Stallion are doing, I believe they are both running C-16.

    BTW, the MSD 7AL2 will be fine for you.

    Not trying to be smart alleck at all, but the old phrase comes to mind... "Speed cost, how fast do you want to go?"

    Have a GREAT Evening

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    Dave,
    IMHO, Bob and Evil are steering you straight. 1) It is a little harder than you think to get 15 or 16:1 CR out of a 505". Possible, but a pretty tight chambered deal.

    Have a GREAT Evening
    I figured he had you in his corner setting him up with a set of trick 11o 60cc figure 8 chambers with a compound valve lay out that were sent off to CP for digitizing for the domes and a cam grinder that knows EXACTLY when he can really kick the intake valve
    Yeah, compression ratios that high in a 505 with a 118 chamber don't come easy.

    You hit a point where you either put it on meth or race "gas" or you don't do it at all. This "meth spray" thing doesn't get it get it done in a N/A deal with those kinds of pressures.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    Dave,
    IMHO, Bob and Evil are steering you straight. 1) It is a little harder than you think to get 15 or 16:1 CR out of a 505". Possible, but a pretty tight chambered deal. 2) Once you exceed the 10:1 CR range you need to be thinking about some form of improoved fuel be it racing gasoline or methanol. 14:1 and better, you need to be looking at C-14 or equivalent or an injected alky unit. 3) I don't know why you are so adament against racing fuel. It is kind of a pay me now or pay me later kind of a situation. The racing fuel will allow you to run increased compression and make increased HP. A lower octane fuel on the compressions you mentioned will cause detonation which will result in a lower power output and damaged parts. For me the fuel is the cheaper part of the equation in relation to a good engine and the money and effort put forth to put it together.

    You mentioned pressurized system. Many of these systems utilize intercoolers and such to keep the inlet and resulting cylinder temps down, but on a max effort deal such as what Haas and Stallion are doing, I believe they are both running C-16.

    BTW, the MSD 7AL2 will be fine for you.

    Not trying to be smart alleck at all, but the old phrase comes to mind... "Speed cost, how fast do you want to go?"

    Have a GREAT Evening
    Gearhead is right on the money.
    I know everyone is tired of us beating the turbo drum, but, I cruise around all over the place on 91 pump gas. Then turn on the c-16 when ready to race. I have a couple drains coming from my carb bowls and plumbed through an nos fuel solenoid and back to the tank. It has a couple site glasses plumbed in so when I switch over to the C-16 I just hold the button till I see the site glasses turn nice & blue, then I know all of the pump gas is out of the system and the C is there. Only takes a few seconds. I'm pretty tight with my $$ so the instant that I'm done making passes I go back and switch back to the pump gas. You know, no need burning the good stuff to get back to the beach
    Doing it this way you only need 5-6gal of the C-16, and you can buy the pump gas at any station so no need to haul alot of fuel.
    Go ahead and plan to go boosted and be done with it . jmo.
    Last edited by Hass828; 08-26-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    C-16 is what? $15 a gallon? That's a $400 fill up. Every weekend for 4 or 5 months out of the year. I understand the pay me now or pay me later deal, but I figure at the HP I'm looking for, there's a way around a $400 fuel up. If I just went out twice a month when it's warm, that's $4000 in fuel. I don't just sit on the bank with my boat, I'm likely to go through 15 gallons a day on the current setup (500-550hp on pump gas).

    In short... I don't mind springing for good quality parts to make HP and be reliable, but I'm not loaded. $400 fill up for the boat, fuel for the tow rig, camping, etc...... Not in my budget. Much less, I don't think it's needed for my HP goals.

    All things considered, should I do a low compression FI setup? (Procharged would be my 1st choice) on e85, or pump with meth injection?

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    Gearhead is right on the money.
    I know everyone is tired of us beating the turbo drum, but, I cruise around all over the place on 91 pump gas. Then turn on the c-16 when ready to race. I have a couple drains coming from my carb bowls and plumbed through an nos fuel solenoid and back to the tank. It has a couple site glasses plumbed in so when I switch over to the C-16 I just hold the button till I see the site glasses turn nice & blue, then I know all of the pump gas is out of the system and the C is there. Only takes a few seconds.
    Doing it this way you only need 5-6gal of the C-16, and you can buy the pump gas at any station so no need to haul alot of fuel.
    Go ahead and plan to go boosted and be done with it . jmo.
    OK, now thats just sick

    Doing that is easily achievable with a boosted deal. On a N/A, you probably couldn't even drive a 15 to 1 deal on 93. Even a light weight like me!



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  16. #14
    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    Haas... We replied at the same time, the C-16 gripe wasn't aimed at your comment

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