Cam selection for BBC in the cruiser. Hydraulic roller? another Hydraulic? Flat?
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Cam selection for BBC in the cruiser. Hydraulic roller? another Hydraulic? Flat?

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    Senior Member kurtis500's Avatar
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    Default Cam selection for BBC in the cruiser. Hydraulic roller? another Hydraulic? Flat?

    Its time to replace the cam in my cruiser engine and I'm looking for some suggestions on what to do next. Here's the engine specs

    454 + .030 4-bolt
    840 closed chamber rect port heads
    11.2:1 compression. I have to look up the piston numbers again, but I remember it being about that. The pistons are TRW forged L???? I'll have the heads off soon and get that number.
    Hydraulic cam (unsure of exact number, haven't had it out of block yet. Purchased motor complete in boat)
    Double roller chain
    Oil cooler
    Intake system is the complete Holley HP EFI kit seen here. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-550-831/ I also purchased the computer controlled marine distributor and most of the sensors, including two knock sensors for each side of the block. This set-up is currently up and running for its second season.

    Connected to a velvet drive tranny and champion v-drive.

    Here's the use. I use it for cruising around with the family and doing a lot of wakeboarding, skiing and pulling tubes around. I would like something good at the bottom end but i cant still get on it when I want to. The current cam has a little lope to it at idle but smoothes out well off idle. I'm more inclined to stay with the lower RPM cams for my use but would like the upper RPM ranges 5500-6500k a reasonable possibility. I'm looking at hydraulic roller profiles and reading some articles on them that make them a little attractive, except for price. Another hydraulic obvious could work as well. I know enough (not everything) about motors and have built all my own engines for racing and pleasure. Any experience or suggestions with this would be helpful.

    Thanks

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    For that kind of CID to that RPM it won't be a huge stick. Hyd roller will have not problem with that kind of RPM. If it has 3/8" stem valves in it you will need run around 180# seat pressure on a good set of Morels.
    Chris Straub
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    Senior Member kurtis500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    For that kind of CID to that RPM it won't be a huge stick. Hyd roller will have not problem with that kind of RPM. If it has 3/8" stem valves in it you will need run around 180# seat pressure on a good set of Morels.
    I guess my concern is the cost and if there is a good noticeable increase in performance. I feel the hydraulic roller will out perform the standard hydraulic in every area, I just dont know if its worth the cost or if I could go with a hydraulic, flat tappet or mild roller instead and put some $$ in some other areas..

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurtis500 View Post
    I guess my concern is the cost and if there is a good noticeable increase in performance. I feel the hydraulic roller will out perform the standard hydraulic in every area, I just dont know if its worth the cost or if I could go with a hydraulic, flat tappet or mild roller instead and put some $$ in some other areas..
    You bring up a good point Kurtis, and I a, about to face this issue myself shortly. Although I am done with flats tappets period, I would like to know if there is any draw backs to a mild solid roller reliability wise over a similar profile hyd. roller. I am not against running valves regualarly, so thats not an issue with me. But I don't much care for a the price of the lifters, specially the better ones. I would actually perfer to run a mild solid if there is any performance gain, and if the reliability is still there in the less agreesive solids.



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    Senior Member kurtis500's Avatar
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    I suppose a good mid range type solid roller cam could be a good choice as well. Im doing some reading and it seems they are low maintenance as well. I have no problem pullinjg valves covers every now and then to check stuff.

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    Senior Member kurtis500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    You bring up a good point Kurtis, and I a, about to face this issue myself shortly. Although I am done with flats tappets period, I would like to know if there is any draw backs to a mild solid roller reliability wise over a similar profile hyd. roller. I am not against running valves regualarly, so thats not an issue with me. But I don't much care for a the price of the lifters, specially the better ones. I would actually perfer to run a mild solid if there is any performance gain, and if the reliability is still there in the less agreesive solids.
    Wow GN7, we posted the same thoughts at the same time. Im doing a lot of reading on other forums and it seems so0lid rollers can be good and economical. Still not sure....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurtis500 View Post
    Wow GN7, we posted the same thoughts at the same time. Im doing a lot of reading on other forums and it seems so0lid rollers can be good and economical. Still not sure....
    When I first built my GN, racing was the furthest thing from my mind. I build a nice strong, reasonably low compression blower motor with moderate boost for pump gas and a reasonably mild solid roller from Isky. We still run the cam on occasions in a N/A motor in the 300 enduro. Its seems to be pretty decent on the valvetrain, and held lash setting fine even with stud rockers. Its more cam than I am interested running in the next motor which tends to make me thing that even less cam would work as a solid.
    I know Cstraub has sold a few hyd grinds with solid lifters on them. So I assume the idea of a "gentle" solid is feasible.



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    A roller lobe by nature has more area under the curve allowing one to open the valve, stuff the cylinder, and close the valve so the engine makes power. Chevy was none to happy in 1985 when Ford came out with the hyd roller 302HO. It put many an IROC Camaro in the mirror while in bone stock trim.

    Up to around 6500 or so a hyd roller can hang with a solid to within a few HP. After that because of the mass of the lifter and neccessary oil pressure a hyd roller can be made to stay with a solid at higher rpm but $$$ start to add up for the parts needed. At this point it is up to customer if more expensive parts for lack of adjusting valves is worth it.

    A mild hyd roller with good morels and an owner that will monitor spring pressure should be able to get 500 to 600HRs out of a combo before needing any major cylinder head tune up work.
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    Senior Member kurtis500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    A roller lobe by nature has more area under the curve allowing one to open the valve, stuff the cylinder, and close the valve so the engine makes power. Chevy was none to happy in 1985 when Ford came out with the hyd roller 302HO. It put many an IROC Camaro in the mirror while in bone stock trim.

    Up to around 6500 or so a hyd roller can hang with a solid to within a few HP. After that because of the mass of the lifter and neccessary oil pressure a hyd roller can be made to stay with a solid at higher rpm but $$$ start to add up for the parts needed. At this point it is up to customer if more expensive parts for lack of adjusting valves is worth it.

    A mild hyd roller with good morels and an owner that will monitor spring pressure should be able to get 500 to 600HRs out of a combo before needing any major cylinder head tune up work.
    Thanks Chris. What about a mild solid roller instead of the similar hydraulic roller? Would there be much of a difference between the two in longevity and parts wear?

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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    I was thinking I made a mistake going with Hyd. roller initially. (Comp. extreme marine).

    But after a lifter failure, and following Mr. Straubs advice, I put Morrels in it, changed the springs to get back up close to 180#, and am now a firm believer in Hyd. roller set ups.

    A solid roller in a milder type engine is certainly an option, and eliminates a failure point, but if you use the right parts the Hyd. roller set up is what I would do.

    The swap to morrels for me was an eye opener. The engine runs and idles with ZERO valvetrain noise, and is noticeably crisper and cleaner at idle and especially coming off idle.

    The last time I thought I couldn't afford some type of roller cam, it ended up costing me thousands of dollars and a wasted summer.
    I can't ever foresee building an engine again without a wheel on the lifters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurtis500 View Post
    Thanks Chris. What about a mild solid roller instead of the similar hydraulic roller? Would there be much of a difference between the two in longevity and parts wear?
    The solid will need to have lash monitored. If the lobe used is fairly mild not requiring huge amounts of spring pressure than you could see a nice life out of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurtis500 View Post
    Thanks Chris. What about a mild solid roller instead of the similar hydraulic roller? Would there be much of a difference between the two in longevity and parts wear?
    The main advantage of the solid roller is the weight of the lifter and the fact that you can run any spring pressure you want. A hyd. roller, even the best ones, can only take so much spring pressure before they start collapsing the internals...which is kind of a catch22 for the HR lifter, since it;s a heavier part and on paper, would want more spring pressure than a solid. However, since most HR cams will have relatively mild lobes, the spring pressures don't become that big of a problem, but it is the achilles heel of the HR. With a SR you can put enough spring in it to make it last just about forever if you;re not beating your valve train to death with a crazy lobe and rpm, but the SR requires regular maintenance. LIke Chris said, with the good HR lifters, you can almost have your cake and eat it too.
    I wrote that out kind of fast...hope it makes sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    The main advantage of the solid roller is the weight of the lifter and the fact that you can run any spring pressure you want. A hyd. roller, even the best ones, can only take so much spring pressure before they start collapsing the internals...which is kind of a catch22 for the HR lifter, since it;s a heavier part and on paper, would want more spring pressure than a solid. However, since most HR cams will have relatively mild lobes, the spring pressures don't become that big of a problem, but it is the achilles heel of the HR. With a SR you can put enough spring in it to make it last just about forever if you;re not beating your valve train to death with a crazy lobe and rpm, but the SR requires regular maintenance. LIke Chris said, with the good HR lifters, you can almost have your cake and eat it too.
    I wrote that out kind of fast...hope it makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdonShano View Post
    Good morning Mr Foxwell.......
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