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Ford connecting rods question

  1. #1
    Member Romper Stomper's Avatar
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    Default Ford connecting rods question

    Ok, so I'm getting closer to putting my motard together and I'm not sure what to do with my rods. This is a super low budget deal, so every penny counts. Plus, I want to do it piece by piece just to learn more. Here's where I'm standing now- .030 overbore, small dish pistons, d0ve heads w/ 72cc combustion chambers (verified), stock dia. magged and polished crank, stock rods. This puts me at about 10.75:1 CR. With everything else I have, I'm hoping for about 550hp give or take. Here's my question- I'm already planning on ARP rod bolts and having them resized. Would there be any benefit to having them peened as well, or are the rods plenty stout for what I'm trying to do? They're truck rods, btw. My machinist seems to think they would be fine without, just curious what you guys think. Thanks in advance for any info. Oh, and thanks for the info on my last thread, too.

    Forgot to say..its a bbf 460 er..466 now
    Last edited by Romper Stomper; 09-06-2012 at 07:16 PM.

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    gn7
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    By the time you buy the bolts, shot peen and resize, how much do you figure you will have in those 30+ year old rods? How much are you WILLING to spend on those 30+ year old rods. What do you consider an reasonable "budget" to get those 30+ year old rods into shape?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Romper Stomper View Post
    Ok, so I'm getting closer to putting my motard together and I'm not sure what to do with my rods. This is a super low budget deal, so every penny counts. Plus, I want to do it piece by piece just to learn more. Here's where I'm standing now- .030 overbore, small dish pistons, d0ve heads w/ 72cc combustion chambers (verified), stock dia. magged and polished crank, stock rods. This puts me at about 10.75:1 CR. With everything else I have, I'm hoping for about 550hp give or take. Here's my question- I'm already planning on ARP rod bolts and having them resized. Would there be any benefit to having them peened as well, or are the rods plenty stout for what I'm trying to do? They're truck rods, btw. My machinist seems to think they would be fine without, just curious what you guys think. Thanks in advance for any info. Oh, and thanks for the info on my last thread, too.

    Forgot to say..its a bbf 460 er..466 now
    Personally, I would. It's not that expensive and it definitely "normalizes" the surface. Do you need to? Probably not, but it sure wouldn't hurt, especially in a marine app.
    JMO
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 09-06-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    By the time you buy the bolts, shot peen and resize, how much do you figure you will have in those 30+ year old rods? How much are you WILLING to spend on those 30+ year old rods. What do you consider an reasonable "budget" to get those 30+ year old rods into shape?
    Did he ask for a lecture on rebuilding a set of rods?
    Sheesh.
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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    Did he ask for a lecture on rebuilding a set of rods?
    Sheesh.
    No. But I plead total ignorance as to how this work costs. Seriously. Haven't done it in 20 years or more. Just trying to figure out if a set of Eagle Sirs is right about the cost of jerking with the stockers.



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  8. #6
    Member Romper Stomper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    By the time you buy the bolts, shot peen and resize, how much do you figure you will have in those 30+ year old rods? How much are you WILLING to spend on those 30+ year old rods. What do you consider an reasonable "budget" to get those 30+ year old rods into shape?
    My machinist told me 200-225 out the door. The cheapest set of after market rods I have found is about 500 (keep in mind, this is a ford). I've got two sets of rods, so I feel better about using what I've got and just doing it all over again IF something happens. I'm not gonna be racing this pig, so its worth it to me.

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    Member Romper Stomper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    Did he ask for a lecture on rebuilding a set of rods?
    Sheesh.
    Thanks for looking out, but I was kinda waiting for it anyway. Lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romper Stomper View Post
    Ok, so I'm getting closer to putting my motard together and I'm not sure what to do with my rods. This is a super low budget deal, so every penny counts. Plus, I want to do it piece by piece just to learn more. Here's where I'm standing now- .030 overbore, small dish pistons, d0ve heads w/ 72cc combustion chambers (verified), stock dia. magged and polished crank, stock rods. This puts me at about 10.75:1 CR. With everything else I have, I'm hoping for about 550hp give or take. Here's my question- I'm already planning on ARP rod bolts and having them resized. Would there be any benefit to having them peened as well, or are the rods plenty stout for what I'm trying to do? They're truck rods, btw. My machinist seems to think they would be fine without, just curious what you guys think. Thanks in advance for any info. Oh, and thanks for the info on my last thread, too.

    Forgot to say..its a bbf 460 er..466 now
    The 385 Series community seems to feel that 550 hp/6000 rpm is the current rule of thumb for prepped OEM rods. In the real world, they have sustained 7000+ rpm with 1000 gram TRW dome tops....and on the flipside have also broken in half at a 4400 rpm steady-state cruise through the middle of town. So you just never know with con rods.

    Whether or not to shot peen them? 6 of one and a half-dozen of the other. Either/or. Half full/half empty. Etcetera. Techncially speaking, proper light smoothening and peening is probably better than nothing at all but were talking 550 hp and presumably 5000 rpm.

    Which pistons are you using? Piston weight plays a big part in con rod integrity. Incidentally, you said, "small dish pistons." If you mean the OEM 1988-1992 460 pistons then you are around 11.25:1 +/- depending on deck height, and closer to 10.25:1 ith the 1993-up version. In either case, if you plan to run pump gas with those iron heads then you can kiss several of your pistons (and potentially any brand rod they are on) good-bye.

    LO

    p.s.: The D6VE truck rods are okay but I don't feel they are any better than the passenger car rods; the little-known F6TE truck rods (aka double-dimple rods) are the really good ones since they have a lot more material around the pin and the big end....but all the OEM rods typically break mid-beam if they let go so even the F6TE rods not a night-and-day difference either.
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  11. #9
    Member Romper Stomper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakesOnly View Post
    The 385 Series community seems to feel that 550 hp/6000 rpm is the current rule of thumb for prepped OEM rods. In the real world, they have sustained 7000+ rpm with 1000 gram TRW dome tops....and on the flipside have also broken in half at a 4400 rpm steady-state cruise through the middle of town. So you just never know with con rods.Whether or not to shot peen them? 6 of one and a half-dozen of the other. Either/or. Half full/half empty. Etcetera. Techncially speaking, proper light smoothening and peening is probably better than nothing at all but were talking 550 hp and presumably 5000 rpm.Which pistons are you using? Piston weight plays a big part in con rod integrity. Incidentally, you said, "small dish pistons." If you mean the OEM 1988-1992 460 pistons then you are around 11.25:1 +/- depending on deck height, and closer to 10.25:1 ith the 1993-up version. In either case, if you plan to run pump gas with those iron heads then you can kiss several of your pistons (and potentially any brand rod they are on) good-bye.LOp.s.: The D6VE truck rods are okay but I don't feel they are any better than the passenger car rods; the little-known F6TE truck rods (aka double-dimple rods) are the really good ones since they have a lot more material around the pin and the big end....but all the OEM rods typically break mid-beam if they let go so even the F6TE rods not a night-and-day difference either.
    Holy shit...Lemme see if I can answer that. I'm hoping for "550" dynoed HP. Probably looking at about 450-475 in the boat. Don't have the piston specs on me, but they are speed-pro with a "slightly" smaller dish than the stockers (stockers were out of a 78 truck). My machinist (knowledgeable guy, not some random yo) figured the CR after he bored the block and cc'd the heads at 10.73:1. One set of rods is d6ve, the other set is d00e. Any difference? I can't see any just by looking. The engine is going in a cvx 20, so its not a balls out hot rod, just wanting a decent cruiser with a backbone. Thanks for the help, mang. Planning on running av-gas...got a hook up on it, plus my machinist says it will possibly help my valve seats because the leaded gas "impregnates" the bare seats....dunno.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romper Stomper View Post
    Thanks for looking out, but I was kinda waiting for it anyway. Lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    No. But I plead total ignorance as to how this work costs. Seriously. Haven't done it in 20 years or more. Just trying to figure out if a set of Eagle Sirs is right about the cost of jerking with the stockers.
    Wasn't trying to be an Ahole. I have that down to a science.

    The reason I asked is because the Chevy guys pretty much know where they stand when using stock rods. A stock BBC 7/16 rod with an aftermarket bolt will USUALLY take more RPM with a given piston weight and stroke than a stock BBF rod with an aftermarket bolt.

    It is pretty common knowledge that the rod will USUALLY fail mid beam, specially if fitted with an aftermarket bolt.

    So my question is, is there ANY aftermarket rod, made by ANYBODY that is considered inferior to the stock BBF rod thats fitted with an aftermarket bolt. If GIVEN a set of "some" aftermarket rod, you would say no thanks, I'll stick with the stockers?

    Just curious, because I don't really know?



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Wasn't trying to be an Ahole. I have that down to a science.

    The reason I asked is because the Chevy guys pretty much know where they stand when using stock rods. A stock BBC 7/16 rod with an aftermarket bolt will USUALLY take more RPM with a given piston weight and stroke than a stock BBF rod with an aftermarket bolt.

    It is pretty common knowledge that the rod will USUALLY fail mid beam, specially if fitted with an aftermarket bolt.

    So my question is, is there ANY aftermarket rod, made by ANYBODY that is considered inferior to the stock BBF rod thats fitted with an aftermarket bolt. If GIVEN a set of "some" aftermarket rod, you would say no thanks, I'll stick with the stockers?

    Just curious, because I don't really know?
    No harm, no foul. Lmao. A wise man once told me, "You can get away with being an Ahole if your right 99% of the time". He was a pretty wise man.

    If ANYONE just gave me ANY aftermarket rod I would run it. If I could build a million horse motor I would. My wallet and friends list is runnin on fumes right now, so I'm honestly just trying to do with what I have. That being said, ANY info I get from you guys is gold in my book! Just don't want to grenade a motor right off the bat.

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Wasn't trying to be an Ahole. I have that down to a science.

    The reason I asked is because the Chevy guys pretty much know where they stand when using stock rods. A stock BBC 7/16 rod with an aftermarket bolt will USUALLY take more RPM with a given piston weight and stroke than a stock BBF rod with an aftermarket bolt.

    It is pretty common knowledge that the rod will USUALLY fail mid beam, specially if fitted with an aftermarket bolt.

    So my question is, is there ANY aftermarket rod, made by ANYBODY that is considered inferior to the stock BBF rod thats fitted with an aftermarket bolt. If GIVEN a set of "some" aftermarket rod, you would say no thanks, I'll stick with the stockers?

    Just curious, because I don't really know?
    I don't see anywhere, where there is anything less than an H beam for the stock 460 configuration. No SIR's. These days, every after market crank uses the BB Chev rod journal and pin in the piston, too. Stock configuration guys are SOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romper Stomper View Post
    I'm hoping for "550" dynoed HP. Probably looking at about 450-475 in the boat. Don't have the piston specs on me, but they are speed-pro with a "slightly" smaller dish than the stockers (stockers were out of a 78 truck). My machinist (knowledgeable guy, not some random yo) figured the CR after he bored the block and cc'd the heads at 10.73:1. One set of rods is d6ve, the other set is d00e. Any difference? I can't see any just by looking. The engine is going in a cvx 20, so its not a balls out hot rod, just wanting a decent cruiser with a backbone. Thanks for the help, mang. Planning on running av-gas...got a hook up on it, plus my machinist says it will possibly help my valve seats because the leaded gas "impregnates" the bare seats....dunno.
    The D0OE and D6VE rod forgings are essentiallly identical; the difference is in how either forging is machined at the shoulder of the big end (spot-faced a la CJ-style or broached a la passenger car style). Either set of rods is suitable for a CVX20 "decent cruiser engine" running 475 hp 5000 rpm. Be sure to not unload the impeller while jumping a wake and staying on the throttle @6000 rpm as you drop back in the water. That would be hard on the OEM rods.

    The AvGas will all but eliminate the possibility of detonation and so now I think your combo is perfectly suitable (no garantees, of course). Yes, the lead in the 100LL AvGas will impregnate the iron exhaust seats and you will not have valve seat issues. (For anyone running the OEM cast iron seats in these heads, a blend of AvGas every 20 engine hours or so should keep them in good shape/blend it all the time with a big roller-springed engine).

    You may find after installing the new rod bolts that the big end does not even need to be re-sized and you're good to go, but measure and then decide. I have a brand new set of Ford double-dimple F6TE rods with brand new ARP bolts in them if you're interested. $275 delivered. If you don't know how the Double-Dimple rods differ from the standard/CJ/truck rods, then I can post pictures.
    Last edited by LakesOnly; 09-07-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    I don't see anywhere, where there is anything less than an H beam for the stock 460 configuration. No SIR's. These days, every after market crank uses the BB Chev rod journal and pin in the piston, too. Stock configuration guys are SOL.
    After looking at the list you'll understand why I asked if there was ANY aftermarket rod that would make you consider reworking a stock rod.

    LINK: Eagle "SIR" bushed


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    The Eagle in the Flatlanders link is a bushed rod which all the others in the same price range are as well. BUT, Eagle does still list the bushed rod. I am guessing the OP needs a pressed rod if he already has pistons without no lock grooves.

    Like I said, I am curious because I would like to know myself.



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