Boost and timming
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Boost and timming

  1. #1
    Senior Member Skydog's Avatar
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    Default Boost and timming

    Hey guys i have a 600 with 8.200:1 compression, supper chiller, Dart pro heads, 260 intake at 50 and 268 exhaust at 50. 714 lift intake and 731 exahust 114 deg. It has a new Whipple 8.3 blower on her running 10PSI of boost at 800feet. Runing 91 fuel timming is locked at 28. Plugs are a cool Ngk 10s. What do you guys think safe??? I am not to sure i like 28deg of timming for heat in lower rpms you think i would be safer at 31-32 Deg?

    Thank you Skydog

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  3. #2
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Hey guys i have a 600 with 8.200:1 compression, supper chiller, Dart pro heads, 260 intake at 50 and 268 exhaust at 50. 714 lift intake and 731 exahust 114 deg. It has a new Whipple 8.3 blower on her running 10PSI of boost at 800feet. Runing 91 fuel timming is locked at 28. Plugs are a cool Ngk 10s. What do you guys think safe??? I am not to sure i like 28deg of timming for heat in lower rpms you think i would be safer at 31-32 Deg?

    Thank you Skydog
    Your edgy right now. You could try 30 and keep on eye on the plugs for detonation. But you're not going to gain anything at WOT. If you feel any difference at all, it will be at part throttle, mainly in the lower Rs.
    Thats a seriously cold plug for that thing. I be thinking about 8s. You could probably run 7s with not problem. NON POROJECTION TIP!!

    You could get away with 36 even 40 if you install a timing computer that pulls timing with the boost. Not a MSD TBM, they're junk. Something like a MSD 6530 Programmable 6al-2. If you want to know if that would help, set the timng at 36 and drive it around BUT DON'T LET IT GO INTO HIGH BOOST! Maybe a lb or 2. You'll know if the motor is happier. With 8.2 to 1 and that cam, I guarantee it will.



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    Senior Member oldschool's Avatar
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    gn7,
    Do you run the MSD 6530 box? I know you talked highly of it before, but curious if anyone is using it. I have the BTM box, but not using the retard system. My sitution is similiar to Skydog's, I'm running a turbo system and want to run more timing at zero to low boost and less timing at higher boost.

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    gn7
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    No we aren't running any retard. In fact the distributer is looked out. But we run pretty much WOT and never part throttle low boost. Its set up for max timing at max boost. With the boost limited by rules, its just a matter of giving it all the timing it can tolerate and make max power. Finding the "ideal" timing on it is easy compared to a lake boosted lake boat.
    When I first built the boat and didn't race it, I too had a TBM, and it sucked. Too much retard for the amount of boost. All the timers back then were either simple devices like the TBM, or jump step retards, or they were very expensive add on deals.

    The MSD 6530 box is computer programmable so you can make a custom curve anyway you like, but it does require a map sensor. But now that those are OEM on virtually all EFI cars today, they aren't all that expensive. The 5630 is probably the best thing for timing a boosted laken deal, shjort of a fully programmable EFI ECU. specially a turbo with its load sensitive boost, as opposed to a roots purely throttle position boost.



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    Senior Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Then I guess 5630 is what I need. Thanks again.

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    As gn said that plug is VERY cold for your set up!! Start with some 8's but you will probly end up at 7's, remember non projected tip!!

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    Senior Member Hullshot's Avatar
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    X2 what GN7 said. Too cold of plugs, unless its wide open all the time? go to a #7 or #8 heat range with the NGK 5671 7/8
    30 degrees with your set up should be fine and it will pull harder through the low and mid range. If you were running 8# boost you could go to 32 Degrees. Keep the timing locked out. Remember blowers like a lot of initial but not a lot of total timing, in other words, 30 from idle up to WOT.
    Yes the BTM suck, they will take out too much timing under boost. 1 degree per pound of boost is the lowest it can go be set. You shouldnt need to get a timing retard box with it locked out, the gains will probably not be noticable with your boat. Set it and forget it.
    Your motor will make 1100-1200 HP easily with that combo. I ran the same combo but I had a 14:71 not a 8.3..

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    Senior Member Skydog's Avatar
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    Ok i got a few for you guys.
    1st If my plugs dont foul, are the cold plugs safer? Why run a hotter plug?
    2nd Will i be safer running more timming than 28deg to keep heat down in mid range, i am not moving timming for more power i was thinking of doing it to be safer.
    3rd Sounds like i am on the edge Have been told the Whipple is must safer than the old style blowers and realy want to run 10PSI but can not lose this motor so....... to be safe 8 PSI you guys think is a must? lol

    5th Last set up with a 1071 at 10psi AFRS at 12.5 (too lean) timming at 31 locked and i only had a one stage pump feeding motor and innercooler worked for about 20 hours.

    New set up two stage water pump one for motor and inner cooler, Whipple Blower way more efficient and with bypass valve when running 60-70 MPH i am making zero boost. (No heat) Old set up 3-5 PSI when cruising. AFRs old set up 12.5 new set up Afrs 11.8. Timming old set up 31.00 timming new set up 28 deg.

    How boat is run..... I run it on a river the longest wide open pass is about 20 sec that i did one time this year normal about 10-12 sec wide open runs. And 95% of the time i have my family in boat running 60MPH or less.

    Thank you so what to do guys hahah
    Last edited by Skydog; 09-14-2012 at 07:05 AM.

  11. #9
    Senior Member Hullshot's Avatar
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    EFI or CArbs
    Dont think I would trust you AFR gauges? what happend to the last motor?
    Get a piro in the exhaust.
    30 degrees will work fine now if you were at 30psi of boost then yes lower the timing..
    What is the max rpm you run this at?
    If you lost a motor with 20 hours and you just cruise it with the family 90% of the time at 3K you are missing something here?
    I had a very similar motor to yours that I built and I broke the motor in on the water at 6K at 120 and 10psi pump gas 30 degree timing and no innercooler and it is still running today, someones elses boat though.

  12. #10
    Senior Member Skydog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hullshot View Post
    EFI or CArbs
    Dont think I would trust you AFR gauges? what happend to the last motor?
    Get a piro in the exhaust.
    30 degrees will work fine now if you were at 30psi of boost then yes lower the timing..
    What is the max rpm you run this at?
    If you lost a motor with 20 hours and you just cruise it with the family 90% of the time at 3K you are missing something here?
    I had a very similar motor to yours that I built and I broke the motor in on the water at 6K at 120 and 10psi pump gas 30 degree timing and no innercooler and it is still running today, someones elses boat though.
    Carbs
    Afrs are from the Dyno
    Max RPM will be 6,000 now last motor i spun up to 6200-6300RPM
    It took out two pistons (2 and 4) and blew threw the head gasket and the head between the two bad holes. My water psi was too low then too 5-8psi at 100MPH and 15PSI at 125+MPH Reading from back of the head. But water temp and oil temp where all ways right on. Funny how motor went it was slowly cranking over harder and harder hot or cold did not matter timming did not move. Pulled plugs a few times did not see any deto on any plugs. Then just cruising with family about 40-50MPH and pop,snap motor killed like a switch and we came to a stop with some smoke coming from hatch went to restart and that was it.... But i understand when we push these motors in boats we are playing with the edge for sure!! Part of the game that sucks.
    Last edited by Skydog; 09-14-2012 at 08:28 AM.

  13. #11
    Senior Member Hullshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Carbs
    Afrs are from the Dyno
    Max RPM will be 6,000 now last motor i spun up to 6200-6300RPM
    It took out two pistons (2 and 4) and blew threw the head gasket and the head between the two bad holes. My water psi was too low then too 5-8psi at 100MPH and 15PSI at 125+MPH Reading from back of the head. But water temp and oil temp where all ways right on. Funny how motor went it was slowly cranking over harder and harder hot or cold did not matter timming did not move. Pulled plugs a few times did not see any deto on any plugs. Then just cruising with family about 40-50MPH and pop,snap motor killed like a switch and we came to a stop with some smoke coming from hatch went to restart and that was it.... But i understand when we push these motors in boats we are playing with the edge for sure!! Part of the game that sucks.
    remember a dyno is for bragging only when it comes to these type of boats. Use it only to check for leaks.
    The rpm are not too bad I ran mine at 6600 with 25-30psi water pressure.
    it sound like you blew the head gaskets out of it then created a torch between the two cylinders and killed the pistons?

  14. #12
    Senior Member Skydog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hullshot View Post
    remember a dyno is for bragging only when it comes to these type of boats. Use it only to check for leaks.
    The rpm are not too bad I ran mine at 6600 with 25-30psi water pressure.
    it sound like you blew the head gaskets out of it then created a torch between the two cylinders and killed the pistons?
    Yes 1000%, my new heads (DART PRO 1 355s) we were able to add two more head bolts per head over my old Canfeilds. What are you thinking was the cause?? Low water psi and steam pockets in head???

    Thank you
    Last edited by Skydog; 09-14-2012 at 12:18 PM.

  15. #13
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    Skydog,
    I am no pro but as for the plugs you should try a -9. Mercury I think uses -8 from 525sc to 800sc then a -9 on 900sc on up and same for Teague.

    I am going to run -9 in my blown 540 with my new AFR heads.

    What AFR gauge are you using? There are a lot of junk ones out there. I would recommend the innovate motorsports one and they are waterproof for marine.

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