Help with Parts selection for bbc
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Help with Parts selection for bbc

  1. #1
    Senior Member Chop Shop's Avatar
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    Default Help with Parts selection for bbc

    I have a few questions for my engine build.

    I have a handfull of parts to use. I would like to use whats good and replace whats not so good.

    The ultimate goal is a nice looking 496 BBC with a 6/71 top and aluminum heads. The blower and heads and rotating assembly will come later this winter.


    For now, what I have to work with is a nice recently built 468 BBC. So far what I know about it is.....

    It has .060 pistons with a silver dollar size dish/indent in them. Not a valve relief but a centered dish thats pretty small. It has 781 oval port heads that have sone form of aftmrkt springs (dual spring and damper) and aftrmrkt retainers. Mallory dual point with a petronix conversion in it. Big tube Basset OT headers.

    Right now the engine has a TeamG tunnel ram and dual predators on it and a holley 200gph fuel pump and half inch lines. I can only get it tuned to run up to 5000 RPM with a "B" cut impeller.

    I have no clue what cam this engine has (if bigger at all) so thats my biggest delima right now.

    What cam to use? NO ROLLER cam yet. Its NOT in the budget. Please, I know how much mo baddasser they are, so I dont need a roller sales pitch just advice on a solid lifter flat tappet cam.

    I have a 318 solid lifter flat tappet Clay Smith cam that I would like to use if it is a decent choice. Its 318 (adv) with 276 @50, and its .645 lift with 1.75 rockers and 110 degree lobe sep.

    Will this cam work with the heads i have without valve clearance problems? Can this cam be used with the tunnel ram and later with the blower with success? I plan to run procomp aluminum heads (rect port 320cc/118) with the blower in the future? Is this cam OK to run with water injected headers?


    If all this is OK then I will next get my valve springs tested to see if they are up to par for the new camshaft.

    I would really like to use the rest of my pedal and get past 5000rpm.

    Thanks Brad

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Chop Shop's Avatar
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    Its in a TX19 Condor if it matters.
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  4. #3
    gn7
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    You're stuck with the cam thats in it. You'll never get the valve clearence with those pistons and that Clay Smith. Plus the compression ratio is way to low for that cam. The blower will be happier with it than the current set up is. Blowers are pretty forgiving when it comes to cams. With that duration its going to want some boost, but it will work.

    If the pistons look something like this with no valve notches, then they are probably cast truck pistons made for a very low lift camshaft, and the pistons some distance down the hole.
    I would be VERY VERY carefull of the cam and the piston to valve clearences with pistons that have no valve notches.
    You 100% certain they have no notches? Even if they have the notches like these, the Clay Smith cam is iffy with those pistons. Plus they are not very strong. You should be happy it doesn't spin any higher than it does. Your at the limit of them now. They were never intended for sustained RPM even close to what you're capable of turning.




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    Last edited by gn7; 09-17-2012 at 06:36 PM.

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    Blown, OHBA Member Wild Hair's Avatar
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    If your motor is running Leave it that way.

    Find another block and build a motor that will handle the boost. Better to take your time and build it right the first time with good parts. In other words, scrap the flat tappet cam, and the pro-crap heads. You will be better off in the long run, and a lot happier with your finished product. Also unless you have a 671, I would opt for the 871 or bigger on a BBC, doesn't have to work as hard to make boost.

    Good luck
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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Hair View Post
    If your motor is running Leave it that way.

    Find another block and build a motor that will handle the boost. Better to take your time and build it right the first time with good parts. In other words, scrap the flat tappet cam, and the pro-crap heads. You will be better off in the long run, and a lot happier with your finished product. Also unless you have a 671, I would opt for the 871 or bigger on a BBC, doesn't have to work as hard to make boost.

    Good luck
    Agreed. With ALL of it!



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    Senior Member Chop Shop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Agreed. With ALL of it!
    Im not spending $1000 on a cam/lifters.
    Im not spending $2000+ on a pair of heads.
    Its just not happening.

    I already own the blower. Its a brand new 6/71 Weiand with a Blower Shop intake manifold.

    All this stuff I have gotten awesome deals on so far. I will continue to pinch pennies where possible.

    While I understand the "buy the best stuff now" idea, I dont have 40 years to save up and dream. I do understand that I can be happy with a nice looking 600 hp engine thats reliable. I dont need to turn the boost way up and make its life numbers in runs, instead of hours.

    I have seen plenty of people use Procomp heads with better valves/hardware and be very happy with the results. Thats a chance I am willing to take ot acheive the level of performancve I need and meet my budgets requirments.

    A roller cam is something that can be installed later when I find a smokin deal on a barley used one.
    So if I can get away with a set of lifters and springs for now I would be set.


    If this complicates things too much or if the procrap hatred is strong enough to stop help form being given, I understand.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chop Shop View Post
    Im not spending $1000 on a cam/lifters.
    Im not spending $2000+ on a pair of heads.
    Its just not happening.

    I already own the blower. Its a brand new 6/71 Weiand with a Blower Shop intake manifold.

    All this stuff I have gotten awesome deals on so far. I will continue to pinch pennies where possible.

    While I understand the "buy the best stuff now" idea, I dont have 40 years to save up and dream. I do understand that I can be happy with a nice looking 600 hp engine thats reliable. I dont need to turn the boost way up and make its life numbers in runs, instead of hours.

    I have seen plenty of people use Procomp heads with better valves/hardware and be very happy with the results. Thats a chance I am willing to take ot acheive the level of performancve I need and meet my budgets requirments.

    A roller cam is something that can be installed later when I find a smokin deal on a barley used one.
    So if I can get away with a set of lifters and springs for now I would be set.


    If this complicates things too much or if the procrap hatred is strong enough to stop help form being given, I understand.
    What kind of piston and rods are you going to use
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    Senior Member Chop Shop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSteve View Post
    What kind of piston and rods are you going to use

    Well I think I can get a pretty decent deal on this stuff. Is this good for what Im doing? Will it need to be balanced? Ive seen them offered balanced and not balanced from vendors.

    Then pistons are a bit high CR for the blower (10-1 with procomp heads), but they can always be changed later when the blower is put on. Or what about running these pistons and using e-85 when the blower is installed?

    Is this stuff a good deal for 1200? Im hoping to maybe get it for 1000 cash or cash and part trade. It looks to be the better crankshaft (1000hp instead of the cast 600hp one) in this kit too.

    Eagle 4140 4.25 forged 2 rear main seal crankshaft for 454 BBC, PN: 545442526385
    Eagle Forged 6.385" I-beam connecting Rods with ARP Hardware PN: sir6385b
    KB Icon Forged 18cc Dome Pistons, 4.310 +60 bore ~10:1 with a 118cc head, IC9952060
    Clevite H series Rod and Main Bearings
    Hastings Rings
    Last edited by Chop Shop; 09-18-2012 at 10:57 PM.

  11. #9
    Blown, OHBA Member Wild Hair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chop Shop View Post
    Im not spending $1000 on a cam/lifters.
    Im not spending $2000+ on a pair of heads.
    Its just not happening.

    I already own the blower. Its a brand new 6/71 Weiand with a Blower Shop intake manifold.

    All this stuff I have gotten awesome deals on so far. I will continue to pinch pennies where possible.

    While I understand the "buy the best stuff now" idea, I dont have 40 years to save up and dream. I do understand that I can be happy with a nice looking 600 hp engine thats reliable. I dont need to turn the boost way up and make its life numbers in runs, instead of hours.

    I have seen plenty of people use Procomp heads with better valves/hardware and be very happy with the results. Thats a chance I am willing to take ot acheive the level of performancve I need and meet my budgets requirments.

    A roller cam is something that can be installed later when I find a smokin deal on a barley used one.
    So if I can get away with a set of lifters and springs for now I would be set.


    If this complicates things too much or if the procrap hatred is strong enough to stop help form being given, I understand.

    Sorry I didn't mean to hit a nerve.

    I have learned that longevity in boat motors is hard to come by. And its even harder with the cheaper parts. I'll bow out. I'm sure someone will recommend a build for your motor with what you have.
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    gn7
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    Don't know where you found a vendor selling 4140 Eagle cranks, but I am already suspicious. The I beam Sir rods are not up to the task of a blower motor, I don't care what boost you plan to run. They are "SLIGHTLY" better than stock 3/8 bolt rods. Any kit from ANY vendor is available with flat top pistons. The Icons are OK, the 18cc dome is not.

    Id rather have a set of used worn out american heads than a set of NEW ProCrap. Buy the time you up grade the parts of the ProCrap heads to where they NEED to be for a blower deal, regardless of the HP, you are not that far from a decent set of used heads. I rather run Dart Iron Eagles than a set of ProCrap. When it loses a valve seat and destroys your engine, you wish you had too.
    If your not that "concerned" about the HP, why do you care if the heads are oval port stockers with good valves. Or is it REALLY all about the bling!????



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    Senior Member Chop Shop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Hair View Post
    Sorry I didn't mean to hit a nerve.

    I have learned that longevity in boat motors is hard to come by. And its even harder with the cheaper parts. I'll bow out. I'm sure someone will recommend a build for your motor with what you have.

    Didnt hit a nerve at all. I just didnt wnat anyone preaching to the choir if they didnt have to.


    I would love to get the best but its just not a reality. Although alot of times while looking at cheaper parts, I end up finding a deal and nicer used stuff thats acceptable.

    The heads are a toss up tho. BBC heads dont come up for sale much used. SBC heads are all over for cheap on CL but NO bbc heads in a reasonable area to me.

    So by the time I buy a set of used rectangle port heads and buy valves and springs and machine work, they will cost me a bit more than aluminum Procomps that are brand new and have the parts in them I want. They do seem to flow very well form the reports Ive read and from the opinions I get on the water.

    So as much I would like ot get a set of domestic aluminum heads or even nice GM ones, I just dont think they can be done for under 1000 and perform as well.

  14. #12
    Senior Member Chop Shop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Don't know where you found a vendor selling 4140 Eagle cranks, but I am already suspicious. The I beam Sir rods are not up to the task of a blower motor, I don't care what boost you plan to run. They are "SLIGHTLY" better than stock 3/8 bolt rods. Any kit from ANY vendor is available with flat top pistons. The Icons are OK, the 18cc dome is not.

    Id rather have a set of used worn out american heads than a set of NEW ProCrap. Buy the time you up grade the parts of the ProCrap heads to where they NEED to be for a blower deal, regardless of the HP, you are not that far from a decent set of used heads. I rather run Dart Iron Eagles than a set of ProCrap. When it loses a valve seat and destroys your engine, you wish you had too.
    If your not that "concerned" about the HP, why do you care if the heads are oval port stockers with good valves. Or is it REALLY all about the bling!????
    Its not from a vendor. Any vendor would ask about 2000-2300 for the same kit from what I have been finding.

    If I could get it for 1000, that would be half off and NO shipping. Its a decent win if I can use it. If its not at least 50 percent usable then its a bad decision.

    I figured aluminum heads because it would help cancel out the added weight of the blower. Plus they look very nice when polished.

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    Senior Member Chop Shop's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=gn7;1715441]Don't know where you found a vendor selling 4140 Eagle cranks, but I am already suspicious. [QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chop Shop View Post
    Im not spending $1000 on a cam/lifters.
    Im not spending $2000+ on a pair of heads.
    Its just not happening.

    I already own the blower. Its a brand new 6/71 Weiand with a Blower Shop intake manifold.

    All this stuff I have gotten awesome deals on so far. I will continue to pinch pennies where possible.

    While I understand the "buy the best stuff now" idea, I dont have 40 years to save up and dream. I do understand that I can be happy with a nice looking 600 hp engine thats reliable. I dont need to turn the boost way up and make its life numbers in runs, instead of hours.

    I have seen plenty of people use Procomp heads with better valves/hardware and be very happy with the results. Thats a chance I am willing to take ot acheive the level of performancve I need and meet my budgets requirments.

    A roller cam is something that can be installed later when I find a smokin deal on a barley used one.
    So if I can get away with a set of lifters and springs for now I would be set.


    If this complicates things too much or if the procrap hatred is strong enough to stop help form being given, I understand.
    If all you want is a reliable 600 hp, then why the hell are you messing with aluminum heads (no matter what the brand) and a blower? You can get a reliable 600 hp on pump gas (91 octane) with the heads you already have... still run a flat tapper if you wanted (not the one you have though, specs not what you'd need)... and hell, still be 468 inches, though the 496 would be a wise upgrade since you'd need to buy pistons and would want to upgrade your rods anyways. Granted, it is not a slap a bunch of junk together and "wa-la... 600 ponies!" But, for what you'd spend on heads and other assorted parts to make your chineese heads work, you could put into working over and putting good parts into your oval ports. I just built a all GM iron 468 049 oval, 7/16 dimple rods, Schneider ZL flat tapper, pump gas deal for a customer and we got 603 @6200. All with a moderate budget, and all spending money where it was most benificial, and all stout enough for the possibility of adding a small nitrous plate system down the road, rather than on shiney aluminum parts.

    Now, you can go two routes with this: 1) Take some advice, weigh out the pro's and con's for each person's advice, and actually do the right thing and build somethign nice that will work within your budget. OR... 2) Get all pissy because nobody, I MEAN NOBODY is gonna tell you that cast pistons, procomp heads, flat tappet, and 2 bolt block is the hot ticket. Not my opinion, just the fact of how folks on this forum roll.

    Well... there is there is the 3rd option as well... if all you care about is shiney aluminum stuff... and thinking you have 600 hp... then go for it, slam it all together and be happy... because sometimes, ignorance is bliss. I'd almost guarentee that the route you wish to go will add something... for a little while anyways... and if your happy with it, for as short of a time as it lasts... then fuckit, that is all that matters.
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