Suggestions on balancer clearance problems
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Suggestions on balancer clearance problems

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    Default Suggestions on balancer clearance problems

    Hi,
    I Have a chevy engine (Race) that was built to run direct drive from the snout of the crank (Hydroplane).
    My setup will have the gearbox running off the flywheel end with engine opposite way round.
    Here is the problem, It has a cam driven dry sump pump that doe's not allow enough room for a damper of any sort, Is this going to be a big problem? From what I have read it really needs a good ATI or similar damper. Is there any alternative for me in this situation?
    I've included a pic to show how little room there is, about 4inch. It will be run in a Circuit race Boat up to 7000rpm. Thanks for any help
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    Pic is upside down sorry

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    Senior Member jockorace's Avatar
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    Just run a blower hub. A internally balanced version will fit for sure, and external version with the counterweight quite possibly will as well.
    I don't have a pic, however Bob (GN7) will post one shortly. Jocko

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  6. #4
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jockorace View Post
    Just run a blower hub. A internally balanced version will fit for sure, and external version with the counterweight quite possibly will as well.
    I don't have a pic, however Bob (GN7) will post one shortly. Jocko
    Sorry Jocko, no show and tell.


    Jocko I think he is more concerned about running without a damper than anything else.
    I can't tell if its a SBC or a BBC, but guessing its a SBC.
    NO, I don't know of an alternative to running a damper in this situation. You either need to relocate the pump, run with out a damper. In that case you can use a crank hub off an early 265 or 283 that didn't have dampers, just hubs, if its a SBC. If its a BBC, then you'll probably need run a blower drive hub. You can also buy just the hub from ATI for their damper, but not sure thats any cheaper than a blower hub.

    If you're asking if I think it should have a damper? In my opinon yes. I won't run anything without one. To 7000 for more than mere seconds on a drag strip, NEVER. But then thats just my opinion.

    Funny, nobody even considers removing the flat wound damper from their valve springs, or taking the shock absorbers off the car. But take the damper off the crank, no sweat.

    Curious, what kind of "circuit" boat is this going in that you decided to run it off the flywheel.



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    Last edited by gn7; 09-20-2012 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Sorry Jocko, no show and tell.


    Jocko I think he is more concerned about running without a damper than anything else.
    I can't tell if its a SBC or a BBC, but guessing its a SBC.
    NO, I don't know of an alternative to running a damper in this situation. You either need to relocate the pump, run with out a damper. In that case you can use a crank hub off an early 265 or 283 that didn't have dampers, just hubs, if its a SBC. If its a BBC, then you'll probably need run a blower drive hub. You can also buy just the hub from ATI for their damper, but not sure thats any cheaper than a blower hub.

    If you're asking if I think it should have a damper? In my opinon yes. I won't run anything without one. To 7000 for more than mere seconds on a drag strip, NEVER. But then thats just my opinion.

    Funny, nobody even considers removing the flat wound damper from their valve springs, or taking the shock absorbers off the car. But take the damper off the crank, no sweat.

    Curious, what kind of "circuit" boat is this going in that you decided to run it off the flywheel.
    Thanks for the reply, Yes my concern was that running without a damper will hurt the motor. It will be in a hydroplane running a Z drive gearbox thats why its running off the flywheel and its a SBC. I just know most of the sprint cars run without a damper not sure how they get away with it?. I thought there may have been a pump extension or something available but looks like I will have to sell or swap complete cam driven system for a belt drive. Or risk it with a hub and im not comfortable with that. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribbean17 View Post
    Thanks for the reply, Yes my concern was that running without a damper will hurt the motor. It will be in a hydroplane running a Z drive gearbox thats why its running off the flywheel and its a SBC. I just know most of the sprint cars run without a damper not sure how they get away with it?. I thought there may have been a pump extension or something available but looks like I will have to sell or swap complete cam driven system for a belt drive. Or risk it with a hub and im not comfortable with that. Thanks
    Yeah the Sprint boys do tend to run with out a damper. The SBC is a little more forgiving to crank felx and harmonics than the BBC, specially with the strokes many BBC run today.

    You could contact Barnes and see if they have an extention that moves the pump out to clear a damper. They are pretty cool guys, and may have something. I KNOW they can relocate the pump for you.

    You say you have about 4". ATI sells a damper thatr is only about 6 3/8 in diameter. That would only need a shade over 3" to clear.



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    Do barnes have an email contact?
    Has anyone ever seen or made an extension for oil pump?, There is plenty of waterpump ext, Thanks

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    should be about the same as a fuel pump extension, uses a hex drive correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribbean17 View Post
    Do barnes have an email contact?
    Has anyone ever seen or made an extension for oil pump?, There is plenty of waterpump ext, Thanks
    Tell you what I'll do for you because I am such a super nice guy. I will print out your pic and run it by there and see if they have anyway of extending the pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAWN DAVIS View Post
    should be about the same as a fuel pump extension, uses a hex drive correct?
    Not quite that easy because the bolt pattern on the pump is different and I think the hex is bigger.



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    Senior Member wizbang's Avatar
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    I made an adapter that mounted the ATI balancer on the flywheel for one of the ProStocks ?

    I actually have a "Fisher" that is complete to mount on the flywheel, if you want I can take pics !

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    Brian, I think the problem here is that he is running off the flywheel. ATI sells an adaptor hub to mount the damper on the flywheel end.

    I went by Barnes today and they said IF you can clear a damper by removing the one you see on the pic, and cut away the flange on the pump mount, the remaining 3 bolts are enough to support the pump. Thats up to you to decide if that would work.

    The only other solution was to relocate the pump which would require having the pump reworked to change the rotation, as well and the end piece that has the 4 bolt mount. The piece needs changing or at least modifying because it has no seal on the shaft. Any oil that gets by the shaft simply bleed into the engine.

    But they don't make an extension for it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Brian, I think the problem here is that he is running off the flywheel. ATI sells an adaptor hub to mount the damper on the flywheel end.

    I went by Barnes today and they said IF you can clear a damper by removing the one you see on the pic, and cut away the flange on the pump mount, the remaining 3 bolts are enough to support the pump. Thats up to you to decide if that would work.

    The only other solution was to relocate the pump which would require having the pump reworked to change the rotation, as well and the end piece that has the 4 bolt mount. The piece needs changing or at least modifying because it has no seal on the shaft. Any oil that gets by the shaft simply bleed into the engine.

    But they don't make an extension for it.
    Many thanks for doing that, I have looked into milling away parts of the flange but there is still just not enough room unless someone makes a Chev balancer under 6inch, I think I will sell complete system to fund a belt drive system. Shame I really do like the idea of the cam drive. Thanks again GN7 for going to barnes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribbean17 View Post
    Many thanks for doing that, I have looked into milling away parts of the flange but there is still just not enough room unless someone makes a Chev balancer under 6inch, I think I will sell complete system to fund a belt drive system. Shame I really do like the idea of the cam drive. Thanks again GN7 for going to barnes
    I needed to go by there any way about having a pump modified myself. Much less mods than you need to make that a belt drive.
    Good luck.



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    Cool !

    There sure is alot of great help right here

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