Tunnel Ram Carb setting up the secondary!
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Tunnel Ram Carb setting up the secondary!

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    Default Tunnel Ram Carb setting up the secondary!

    I recently purchased my first V Drive a 70 Stevens with BBC Tunnel Ram with 660 Holley carbs. I`m going over the boat this winter & will be rebuilding the carbs. Before I tear this down I discovered that the slots on the carb shafts for the secondarys have been modified. I believe this was done for a drag car application & not for marine. I believe this was done to make the Car more managable in the pits. The problem is one carb is not opening the secondary at the same time as the other. The first picture shows both carbs at idle. Second-Third picture shows the slots alittle better. Forth-Fifth picture shows at 1/8 throttle opening & the differance in secondary opening. My thought is they should both be opening at the same time. Should the slots be reworked so both open at the same time? Is this delayed secondary a good thing to use in a Flat bottom?
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    gn7
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    Not sure why you think that was done to make a drag car more managable in the pits. If you're on the primaries, delaying the secondaries is of little use. And no drag car ever got into the secondaries in the pits, or return road even with 660s. Aleast not without being thrown out!

    Its actually more of a street or boat gimmick. And thats a polite term for jacking with a set of 660 secondaries.

    Yes, you need to get them even. I have never agreed with modifying the secondary cam ramp, but if its going to be done, it needs to be equal. Those were modified by a complete hack.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Not sure why you think that was done to make a drag car more managable in the pits. If you're on the primaries, delaying the secondaries is of little use. And no drag car ever got into the secondaries in the pits, or return road even with 660s. Aleast not without being thrown out!

    Its actually more of a street or boat gimmick. And thats a polite term for jacking with a set of 660 secondaries.

    Yes, you need to get them even. I have never agreed with modifying the secondary cam ramp, but if its going to be done, it needs to be equal. Those were modified by a complete hack.
    I wonder what else has been done to the carbs or anything else ?
    If you ain't the lead dog the view is always the same !

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    gn7
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    The 660s hold the record hands down, for being number one bastardized carb, must done by hacks that shouldn't even be allowed to change a bowl gasket. Every body and hos bother thought he had the trick fix for the worst carb ever used in a non drag race application.
    They all bought the POS because it was thee trick carb of the month, and them when they did work for shit, they all started screwing with them, and only made a bad carb that was being used in the wrong application into a terrble carb.
    The carb was a DECENT definite purpose, idle to WOT carb that wannbes tried to use for cruising.

    The only thing worse than the 660 as a lake carb was the short lived 1 to 1 geared mechanical linkage conversion kits sold to convert vac secondary carbs to mechanical. Those sucked even for drag racing.



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    Thanks for your replys, Please keep in mind I`m not going to Race this boat rather just use it on the lake.The boat runs strong so I think with some work it will be even better. The carbs has the secondary meterblock installed. I have seen some new billet throttle bases on ebay, are these worth using? Is there a better set of carbs for my app.


    Holley Carburetor Billet Base Plate 660 Center Squirter 4224 Allstate Carburetor | eBay
    Last edited by 70 Stevens; 01-01-2013 at 07:59 PM.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70 Stevens View Post
    Thanks for your replys, Please keep in mind I`m not going to Race this boat rather just use it on the lake.The boat runs strong so I think with some work it will be even better. The carbs has the secondary meterblock installed. I have seen some new billet throttle bases on ebay, are these worth using? Is there a better set of carbs for my app.


    Holley Carburetor Billet Base Plate 660 Center Squirter 4224 Allstate Carburetor | eBay
    There is no really benefit to the billet block for the 660 unless the secondary cam piece has been so bastardized its nusable. Seen plenty that were that badly modified, and before the availabilty of replacemtent aftermarket bases, were useless junk. At least now they can be salvage, FOR A PRICE!

    Saying its not a race boat is little to no benefit really. They either work for you or they don't. But if it was a race boat, they would be more at home. Its race carb.

    Any Holley, vacuum or double pumper can be tuned to deliever better fuel efficiency, and usually a couple HP over the 660s. Drivabilty is the big thing. Fuel milage and drivabilty are the 660s weakness. It WHY those carbs, and virtually every 660 ever made, has been TWEAKED to try and make them into something they can never be.

    You tune them the best you can and live with what they are, or get a DIFFERENT carb. But don't tweek them thinking you can fool them into behaving in some way they never can.



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    Like that one said, set the secondaries up stock. I know about nothing about 660's other than i run a set and they work fine..messing with secondary opening rate will/did cause more problems than it could ever solve. Mine will even get sorta decent fuel mileage as long as i run steady speed...what fun is that?
    Ran them on a plenty stock 455 olds (hydro with 40 gears) and now they are on an over camed 427 with same gears..took a few mods to get the 427 to idle decent and be able to hammer it with out a bog and they are a little old school but i like them much better than the single 1050 i used to have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldHondaBoughtHondo View Post
    Like that one said, set the secondaries up stock. I know about nothing about 660's other than i run a set and they work fine..messing with secondary opening rate will/did cause more problems than it could ever solve. Mine will even get sorta decent fuel mileage as long as i run steady speed...what fun is that?
    Ran them on a plenty stock 455 olds (hydro with 40 gears) and now they are on an over camed 427 with same gears..took a few mods to get the 427 to idle decent and be able to hammer it with out a bog and they are a little old school but i like them much better than the single 1050 i used to have.

    The idle circuit is one of their biggest downfalls, and seems to be ONE of the reasons for the modifying. Makes no sense to me, but then screwing with them at all other than the idle circuit for a drag deal has never made any sense to me. But I have seen the secondary cam blamed for things it has nothing to do with, and can't possibly fix, but the mods were made anyway.

    It is by far the most maligned carb in the world, even more so than the lowly Qjet, and its falsly blamed because its used in an application it was never intended for.
    If you understand it is what it is, tune it the best you can by way of jets, air bleeds(if you know what you're doing, very seldom needs) and idle restrictors(which they almost always need), and accept it for what it is, then they are OK. It gets a bad rap when its misused and/or badly modified.



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    Short story, I had a pair of 4224's laying around for 35 years, basically unmolested (choke horns off)! Bought a pair of secondary metering body kits and billet base plates from All State Carburetor. Jetted square no PV's they run great and I'm going to leave them that way!! The only reason for changing the secondary bodies was mainly for jetting purposes and base plates because of parts missing on old ones!
    Could I make more HP by switching to 750's, no doubt but I'm not racing it so why convolute things!
    So, I definitely would change your base plates if your not happy with performance.
    Last edited by Spudpilot; 01-02-2013 at 10:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    The idle circuit is one of their biggest downfalls, and seems to be ONE of the reasons for the modifying. Makes no sense to me, but then screwing with them at all other than the idle circuit for a drag deal has never made any sense to me. But I have seen the secondary cam blamed for things it has nothing to do with, and can't possibly fix, but the mods were made anyway.

    It is by far the most maligned carb in the world, even more so than the lowly Qjet, and its falsly blamed because its used in an application it was never intended for.
    If you understand it is what it is, tune it the best you can by way of jets, air bleeds(if you know what you're doing, very seldom needs) and idle restrictors(which they almost always need), and accept it for what it is, then they are OK. It gets a bad rap when its misused and/or badly modified.
    Who maligns Q-Jets? I like those carbs..I have 2 that are close enough to match to use..I just can't figure a way to get enough acc. pump to work on my deal...660 idle circuit is no big..after you figure it out..Don't know any real numbers but my mileage isn't all that bad...running 76 square and i ran from site 6 to the dam and back on 14 gallons..thinking 30 miles min..running 5500-6k all the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudpilot View Post
    Short story, I had a pair of 4224's laying around for 35 years, basically unmolested (choke horns off)! Bought a pair of secondary metering body kits and billet base plates from All State Carburetor. Jetted square no PV's they run great and I'm going to leave them that way!! The only reason for changing the secondary bodies was mainly for jetting purposes and base plates because of parts missing on old ones!
    Could I make more HP by switching to 750's, no doubt but I'm not racing it so why convolute things!
    So, I definitely would change your base plates if your not happy with performance.
    You're a better man than I am John. I couldn't bring myself to investing that much money in a set. I draw the line at new gaskets. Anything more and they're in the "parts" bin. Which is where I think my are, and will probably remain.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    You're a better man than I am John. I couldn't bring myself to investing that much money in a set. I draw the line at new gaskets. Anything more and they're in the "parts" bin. Which is where I think my are, and will probably remain.
    I hear ya Bob, I wouldn't have except I already had them to start with, I'll work with them for a while and very well may change them down the road.

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    Ok, I have read thru this & have come to this conclusion.
    1 Holley 660 carbs are not liked by some & liked by others
    2 Race carb not a good choice for all around lake running
    3 Fuel guzzlers, tempermental, Idle circuits weak, Floods easy

    I don`t want to spend alot of Time & money with base plates trying fix the secondary slot timing & have more issues on the lake. What I am seeing with some of the NEW street use Tunnel Ram kits of today are 450CFM carbs with vacuum secondarys. My engine is 468CI 10-1 pistons , solid cam, pump gas. I would like to have the best all around combo that is availible NEW today that saves fuel, idles well, dock friendly, & still run well at all RPM.

    What would be a Good set of carbs?
    1 Single pumper or Dual
    2 Mech secondarys or Vac
    3 four corner idle or two
    4 CFM ?
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    750 double pumpers would work nice on there.

    Good Luck

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