Vertex users step in!
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 14 of 112

Thread:
Vertex users step in!

  1. #1
    Senior Member SHAWN DAVIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    lake Charles, Louisiana
    Posts
    640

    Default Vertex users step in!

    Do you sharpen the rotor on them?
    Put a new OXC, Locked timing, small cap, rotor tip looks approx 5/16 wide, It kicks back on the starter pretty hard at times when cranking.
    I did take a litle off the leading edge of the rotor, but havent tried it since I did that. Seems like it is cross firing when it happens.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member Hass828's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    okie, lake Texoma
    Posts
    6,275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAWN DAVIS View Post
    Do you sharpen the rotor on them?
    Put a new OXC, Locked timing, small cap, rotor tip looks approx 5/16 wide, It kicks back on the starter pretty hard at times when cranking.
    I did take a litle off the leading edge of the rotor, but havent tried it since I did that. Seems like it is cross firing when it happens.
    No, with the locked timing you might need to install a toggle for the mag so you can get the engine spinning and then light the mag. that or send it in to have a very small amount of mech advance put in it and have it come in as early as possible. JMO.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
    H8-2-W8
    [email protected] first pass

  4. #3
    Senior Member SHAWN DAVIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    lake Charles, Louisiana
    Posts
    640

    Default

    Yeah thats how I ran it, and thought about adding some mechanical advance also as a permanent fix,
    dont really like the idea of extra moving parts in the mag though
    Last edited by SHAWN DAVIS; 01-03-2013 at 08:16 AM.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Port Richey, FL
    Posts
    16,855

    Default

    20 years ago I would retard the timing on a sprint car to start it. It didnt have a starter but there was a device that attached to the quick change rear end to start it in the shop. It didnt spin the engine very fast. The engine builder said that was the stupidest thing he ever heard of. Retarding the timing to start the engine. LOL
    If For Some Reason I Do Something Worthy Of Recognition. God Provided The Ability And Deserves The Credit.


    QE 439 Twin Turbo

  7. #5
    gn7
    gn7 is offline
    Senior Member gn7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    25,975

    Default

    Spark takes the path of least resistance. If you even remotely believe the spark is jumping at cranking soeed and NO boost, you have a huge issue when its spinning 7000 and 15lbs or better, with a full load of fuel on a hot plug.

    There ZERO reason that any engine should ever kick back on the starter. Its simply lean when you are trying to start it. With a mag it maybe pretty easy to flood the thing at cranking speed and you're being overly cautious not to flood it. But the kick back should not be due to cross fire on the starter, I don't care how small the cap is.

    Its also possible to have a bad wire that spark would perfer not to jump, and when that cylinder has just the cranking compression its enough to create a cross fire. But I still doubt that because you should have a pronounced misfire at speed.

    If your wires are all OK, you're trying to start it lean.



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

  8. #6
    Senior Member SHAWN DAVIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    lake Charles, Louisiana
    Posts
    640

    Default

    It is kinda puzzling, with a standard cap MSD it cranked and started fine
    Same timing with the Vertex it kicks back. Not like a starter struggling against timing but a crossfire. Now the only difference I see is a small cap and wider rotor with the mag
    No problems at 7000 and over 15 lbs, it runs like a scalded ape

    Even a MSD mag 44 runs a semi pointed rotor

    I'll play around with it some and figure something out

  9. #7
    Senior Member Hass828's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    okie, lake Texoma
    Posts
    6,275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post

    There ZERO reason that any engine should ever kick back on the starter. Its simply lean when you are trying to start it. .
    I disagree. Many engines out there that require enough timing that if dialed in with a locked distributer they will kick back when starting. Hell your firing it BTDC. Depends on the perimeters of the engine and just how much locked timing we're talking about .
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
    H8-2-W8
    [email protected] first pass

  10. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jerome, Idaho
    Posts
    1,739

    Default

    What kind of compression?

  11. #9
    Senior Member SHAWN DAVIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    lake Charles, Louisiana
    Posts
    640

    Default

    8-1 static
    572 ci psi screw blower
    30 degrees locked

  12. #10
    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    5,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAWN DAVIS View Post
    It is kinda puzzling, with a standard cap MSD it cranked and started fine
    Same timing with the Vertex it kicks back. Not like a starter struggling against timing but a crossfire. Now the only difference I see is a small cap and wider rotor with the mag
    No problems at 7000 and over 15 lbs, it runs like a scalded ape

    Even a MSD mag 44 runs a semi pointed rotor

    I'll play around with it some and figure something out
    Ran a lot of Vertex mags and never really had any issues with cross firing. Of course that don't mean it doen't happen, just I haven't seen it. I have had problems with them pushing back against a lot of timing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    I disagree. Many engines out there that require enough timing that if dialed in with a locked distributer they will kick back when starting. Hell your firing it BTDC. Depends on the perimeters of the engine and just how much locked timing we're talking about .
    Yea, same experience here. Back when we needed 40+ degrees of lead on motors, we knocked the end off more than one starter with a locked mag.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

  13. #11
    gn7
    gn7 is offline
    Senior Member gn7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    25,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    I disagree. Many engines out there that require enough timing that if dialed in with a locked distributer they will kick back when starting. Hell your firing it BTDC. Depends on the perimeters of the engine and just how much locked timing we're talking about .
    Agreed, but the operative word here is ENOUGH timing. Nothing about a 8 to 1 and 30* timing sounds like ENOUGH timing to cause a kick back.
    Quote Originally Posted by SHAWN DAVIS View Post
    It is kinda puzzling, with a standard cap MSD it cranked and started fine
    Same timing with the Vertex it kicks back. Not like a starter struggling against timing but a crossfire. Now the only difference I see is a small cap and wider rotor with the mag
    No problems at 7000 and over 15 lbs, it runs like a scalded ape

    Even a MSD mag 44 runs a semi pointed rotor

    I'll play around with it some and figure something out
    Keep in mind when the OEMs went to HEI ignitions they did it solve lean misfire. There is no other reason they needed to make HEIs. They could easily made pointless ignitions if they didn't need to jump a .085 gap.

    If there is one thing a MSD can do is start a fire with very little fuel. A mag can start a fire in a thunder storm of fuel, but lean is its down fall. Otherwise the OEMs would have just gone back to Henry's magneto, and Hass would be in pig heaven. At 17 to 1 AF at an idlae with piss poor spark power and tiny ass .018 gap on the plug the mag would be a filthy pig emmissions wise.

    I still think part of your problem is trying to start it lean.

    Comparing the need to have a pointed rotor on a 44AMP mag to hinder crossfire and a Vertex is funny. The MSD 44 could jump across the entire diameter of the cap, the Vertex is lucky to jump the .018 at the plug. If the 44 had the Vertex's cap you would probably never be able to start the thing.



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

  14. #12
    Senior Member Hass828's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    okie, lake Texoma
    Posts
    6,275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Agreed, but the operative word here is ENOUGH timing. Nothing about a 8 to 1 and 30* timing sounds like ENOUGH timing to cause a kick back.
    No the operative word was "any". And at that time he haddent posted his static comp, cid, or timing.

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    There ZERO reason that any engine should ever kick back on the starter. Its simply lean when you are trying to start it. .
    And I know you like to slam the mags, but I have tested a 1amp base vertex against an MSD 7AL3 on a boosted(17psi) engine that also had a large(325hp) shot of nos. Same day , same conditions, the msd wouldnt light it, pulled the dizzy & dropped in the mag and it would hit like a hammer. Tried two different brand new boxes, had the bad ass recommended coil(tried two of them as well)the tech from MSD said that the 7AL3 didnt have enough power that I would need a mag. That was straight from MSD. So since I already had a mag I've been just sticking with the devil that works. I did send my vertex in and had it cranked up to 3 amps but havent noticed any difference. Never misses a lick.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
    H8-2-W8
    [email protected] first pass

  15. #13
    Senior Member SHAWN DAVIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    lake Charles, Louisiana
    Posts
    640

    Default

    I'll use the term MSD loosely with the previous distributor, it was one of the boxless ready to run cheapos cause I had it....
    No problems with it and the 10/71, approx 1050 hp, ran good
    Now the PSI and a 1400 tune was a different story, It wasnt having any part of that
    I just spoke to a mag builder and he's seen a bunch of rotors with an angle cut on the trailing edge, may be something to that mod
    Last edited by SHAWN DAVIS; 01-04-2013 at 02:09 PM.

  16. #14
    Canoe Jockey Michael Thomas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,130

    Default

    Shawn, It is easy to get the wires crossed on a vertex cap. Also if the screws get over-tighen it can cause internal cracks...
    "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...Baffle them with bullshit"

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Tags for this Thread

Digg This Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95