Twin Turbo 509 ci
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Twin Turbo 509 ci

  1. #1
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    Default Twin Turbo 509 ci

    Hi Guys
    fantastic web site, love the tech. forum
    I posted this in V drive by mistake, so now changing it under Dyno to see how we get on

    I have a project at present which is Gen VI Chev BB 509
    short block is together:
    JE 7.5 dished pistons
    6.385"rods
    forged crank
    Im unsure whether I will run the 088 Gen VI cast iron square ports, or have some #861 raised bowtie alum. heads

    Im looking for some suggestions on camshaft specifications to run:
    Have several Hyd. rollers, and solid rollers, most of them 112-114 Lobe separation, and 230-250 (@ 0.050") duration, and 0.560-0.650" lift

    The engine will be going into 21ft V boat as near harbour and not spoiled for choice for lakes and rivers, and was think I making 1000Hp, < @ 6200rpm, so want to develop the torque in mid range
    I have some new Rajay 301E13 here, but was thinking of larger Borg Warner turbo S375/T4 frame, or even S475/T4 frame, not sure whether I can get the torque down low in mid range for the S475/T6, or whether just run a larger single turbo,
    would like to run motor on pump gas so not sure if 10-15 psi is too much.

    was going to run a gale banks or PFM intercooler to start with see how it ran
    Have a Gale Banks set up and dominator thats on another motor, as well as 2000 cfm throttle body

    Im interested in some comparative views on camshaft specification recommendations if its not asking too much just to point me in right direction. If need be I can get one of the billet cams machined if Its not quite rightcheers
    Brett

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    Default bump

    Thought I would give this a bump
    Guys, any takers, just looking for some extended experience to be thrown in with the turbo question

    what
    Lobe Separation:
    Duration @ 0.050":
    Lift @ 1.7" rocker:


    any information would be helpful

    cheers
    Brett

    Quote Originally Posted by bjf66 View Post
    Hi Guys
    fantastic web site, love the tech. forum
    I posted this in V drive by mistake, so now changing it under Dyno to see how we get on

    I have a project at present which is Gen VI Chev BB 509
    short block is together:
    JE 7.5 dished pistons
    6.385"rods
    forged crank
    Im unsure whether I will run the 088 Gen VI cast iron square ports, or have some #861 raised bowtie alum. heads

    Im looking for some suggestions on camshaft specifications to run:
    Have several Hyd. rollers, and solid rollers, most of them 112-114 Lobe separation, and 230-250 (@ 0.050") duration, and 0.560-0.650" lift

    The engine will be going into 21ft V boat as near harbour and not spoiled for choice for lakes and rivers, and was think I making 1000Hp, < @ 6200rpm, so want to develop the torque in mid range
    I have some new Rajay 301E13 here, but was thinking of larger Borg Warner turbo S375/T4 frame, or even S475/T4 frame, not sure whether I can get the torque down low in mid range for the S475/T6, or whether just run a larger single turbo,
    would like to run motor on pump gas so not sure if 10-15 psi is too much.

    was going to run a gale banks or PFM intercooler to start with see how it ran
    Have a Gale Banks set up and dominator thats on another motor, as well as 2000 cfm throttle body

    Im interested in some comparative views on camshaft specification recommendations if its not asking too much just to point me in right direction. If need be I can get one of the billet cams machined if Its not quite right
    cheers
    Brett

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    Senior Member Hass828's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjf66 View Post
    Hi Guys
    fantastic web site, love the tech. forum
    I posted this in V drive by mistake, so now changing it under Dyno to see how we get on

    I have a project at present which is Gen VI Chev BB 509
    short block is together:
    JE 7.5 dished pistons
    6.385"rods
    forged crank
    Im unsure whether I will run the 088 Gen VI cast iron square ports, or have some #861 raised bowtie alum. heads

    Im looking for some suggestions on camshaft specifications to run:
    Have several Hyd. rollers, and solid rollers, most of them 112-114 Lobe separation, and 230-250 (@ 0.050") duration, and 0.560-0.650" lift

    The engine will be going into 21ft V boat as near harbour and not spoiled for choice for lakes and rivers, and was think I making 1000Hp, < @ 6200rpm, so want to develop the torque in mid range
    I have some new Rajay 301E13 here, but was thinking of larger Borg Warner turbo S375/T4 frame, or even S475/T4 frame, not sure whether I can get the torque down low in mid range for the S475/T6, or whether just run a larger single turbo,
    would like to run motor on pump gas so not sure if 10-15 psi is too much.

    was going to run a gale banks or PFM intercooler to start with see how it ran
    Have a Gale Banks set up and dominator thats on another motor, as well as 2000 cfm throttle body

    Im interested in some comparative views on camshaft specification recommendations if its not asking too much just to point me in right direction. If need be I can get one of the billet cams machined if Its not quite rightcheers
    Brett
    I think your a little to conservative with your static compression ratio. It will be a sluggish pig till boost comes on. I would much rather see you at 8.5-1 or even 9-1.
    As for the camshaft, if you arent going with a custom grind, and you should give it some consideration when trying to make some good power on pump, then I would go with a solid roller with 114 lsa, around [email protected] and the .650lift. JMO.
    Are you carbed or efi? I see your going intercooled. I would stay away from the old draw through stuff.
    I am personally at 9.4-1 compression, intercooled and I get away with 12psi on pump gas.

    Start off with no more than 26-28* of timing total and get the a/f dialed in. Hope you have some form of 02 setup to tune with. Dont just arbitrarily add timing. Add a little fuel, then add a degree of timing. Keep an eye on the a/f and the plugs. Keep engine temps very cool. With those iron heads and pump gas you will need to keep the timing a low, might not get away with any more than 28*. Mistakes are expen$ive. Good luck, Hass
    Last edited by Hass828; 02-05-2013 at 04:31 AM.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
    H8-2-W8
    [email protected] first pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    I think your a little to conservative with your static compression ratio. It will be a sluggish pig till boost comes on. I would much rather see you at 8.5-1 or even 9-1.
    As for the camshaft, if you arent going with a custom grind, and you should give it some consideration when trying to make some good power on pump, then I would go with a solid roller with 114 lsa, around [email protected] and the .650lift. JMO.
    Are you carbed or efi? I see your going intercooled. I would stay away from the old draw through stuff.
    I am personally at 9.4-1 compression, intercooled and I get away with 12psi on pump gas.

    Start off with no more than 26-28* of timing total and get the a/f dialed in. Hope you have some form of 02 setup to tune with. Dont just arbitrarily add timing. Add a little fuel, then add a degree of timing. Keep an eye on the a/f and the plugs. Keep engine temps very cool. With those iron heads and pump gas you will need to keep the timing a low, might not get away with any more than 28*. Mistakes are expen$ive. Good luck, Hass

    You indicate the engine has a static compression of 9.4-1, is that with iron heads?
    How would the cam you suggested idle and what RPM range would this be good for?

  7. #5
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    the 861 heads are a bad idea on this build. As far as low-mid range torque, you are already suffering due to the low compression, Like Hass posted, its not going to make much in the way of power until its in boost. The 861 heads only make the problem worse.



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    Quote Originally Posted by bjf66 View Post
    Hi Guys
    fantastic web site, love the tech. forum
    I posted this in V drive by mistake, so now changing it under Dyno to see how we get on

    I have a project at present which is Gen VI Chev BB 509
    short block is together:
    JE 7.5 dished pistons
    6.385"rods
    forged crank
    Im unsure whether I will run the 088 Gen VI cast iron square ports, or have some #861 raised bowtie alum. heads

    Im looking for some suggestions on camshaft specifications to run:
    Have several Hyd. rollers, and solid rollers, most of them 112-114 Lobe separation, and 230-250 (@ 0.050") duration, and 0.560-0.650" lift

    The engine will be going into 21ft V boat as near harbour and not spoiled for choice for lakes and rivers, and was think I making 1000Hp, < @ 6200rpm, so want to develop the torque in mid range
    I have some new Rajay 301E13 here, but was thinking of larger Borg Warner turbo S375/T4 frame, or even S475/T4 frame, not sure whether I can get the torque down low in mid range for the S475/T6, or whether just run a larger single turbo,
    would like to run motor on pump gas so not sure if 10-15 psi is too much.

    was going to run a gale banks or PFM intercooler to start with see how it ran
    Have a Gale Banks set up and dominator thats on another motor, as well as 2000 cfm throttle body

    Im interested in some comparative views on camshaft specification recommendations if its not asking too much just to point me in right direction. If need be I can get one of the billet cams machined if Its not quite rightcheers
    Brett
    Like Hass mentioned, compression that low is going to limit your low to mid rpm power, until boost comes in. If you don't change it, it's likely you will be able to run 20+psi, intercooled.

    Sell the Rajay's, most of the guys here seem to run the S475's with outstanding results, however the S375 may be worth investigating if you're not shooting for 1400+... Dunno, and I don't want to do the research at the moment. I'm sure someone will pipe up with a strong recommendation before too long.

    Also mentioned above, a blow through set-up is the hot ticket if you are going the carburetor route. A modified or purpose built 850 should do you well. EFI is a strong option too. Either has a strong knowledge base and group of community supporters to help tuning. Draw through systems can work. If that's what you have and you want a simple solution... run it. However it's not optimum.

    Depending how deep you want to get into your project, choose a head and get it ported to optimize your needs and flowed, then talk to a custom cam specialist. Contact steelecomp (Scott Foxwell) for you heads and cstraub (Chris Straub) for your cam needs. They are the guys that will do it right, as a bonus they frequent this site too. I just saw this thread http://www.performanceboats.com/pb-o...t-foxwell.html, looks like they will be working hand in hand. Good news!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsplace View Post
    You indicate the engine has a static compression of 9.4-1, is that with iron heads?
    How would the cam you suggested idle and what RPM range would this be good for?
    Sorry if I confused you, the 9.4-1 engine is my personal turbo engine and it has aluminum Brodix heads. That cam I suggested should give some good low end power. But the heads need to be decided on before the camshaft.
    If this guy is only looking for a 1000hp 509 then he could get there with very little as far as heads & camshaft. With a 509 cid he should be able to get [email protected] with around 11.3 psi of boost, the heads that he has, 9-1 static, intercooled, and cam I suggested.

    At 6200rpms it will require 12.5psi.
    Last edited by Hass828; 02-05-2013 at 12:19 PM.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
    H8-2-W8
    [email protected] first pass

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    Default turbo setup

    We finished and dynoed this motor this past Saturday, miscalculated the fuel pump and injector requirement, mainly because the motor made more HP than it should have with 62mm twins. It made 1450HP on this pull @5300 RPM at about 17lbs boost, when we shut it down.
    Just a bunch of dumb rednecks having fun, LOL!
    First pull on the dyno @ 8lbs of boost and just starting the tune, it made 996HP @6200 RPM, not even breathing hard.
    Three turns of the wastegate springs @14 lbs it made 1265HP, and was laying over because it was running out of fuel. Pretty mean little motor.
    BBC 489 8.6:1 Canfield 350 heads, 266/[email protected] .050 .675 .675 LSA 114 FAST fuel injection intercooled 62mm twin, Titanium intake wheel, turbos Old CAT turbos actually with 1.00 A/R exhaust housings and a 68mm exhaust wheel. We thought they would be severely limited to 1000-1100, they surprised us.


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    Last edited by Jspeeddemon; 02-11-2013 at 12:36 PM.

  11. #9
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    Which heads you going to use? Are they ported? If so do you have the numbers?

    What is the power range you want?
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

    3HP is an A$$ Whooping!!! JW

  12. #10
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    Default My 509 update

    Short block together, Im going to run as is with 7.5/1
    Heads being assembled decided just to run the factory #088 heads and see what happens, they have been slightly port/polished/2.3 & 1.88 exhaust
    Cam still not chosen
    Finalised the turbos today, and placed order; after much thought, was leaning towards the BW 366, 0.91A/R T4 frames, however decided on going with larger S471/1.32 A/R T6 frames, just hope they arent too large.
    Need to rig something up for the exhausts, was hoping for some water cooling.
    Has anyone purchased these exhausts that are on ebay for $600
    1.down and forward
    2.up and forward,
    wall thickness is 1.6mm/ 16 guage

    What do you think????

    Cheers
    Brett
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  13. #11
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    I have heard negative things about the import headers. They tend to crack alot. I too thought about them for mine. Im already using enough "import" stuff on my build. I started to build my own then I opted to have some made by a friend of mine due to having a newborn at home and the wife wont let me out in the garage right now . 1/2" flange, 304 stainless, and quality v-bands.
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    Default Pipe size

    Fireguy
    what size primary pipes did you use
    OD
    thickness

    cheers

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    2", .062 thick.
    Primary's may be a bit too big, we will see. Its not a race boat so who cares if its not the perfect setup.

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    Fireguy
    thanks

    actual I had a clear out the day and came across some steel turbo headers that picked up at swap meet some 6 yrs ago and forgot I actual had
    Measurements are:
    4.5" OD collector
    Primary pipes: 2.25" OD / 2.10" ID = 0.075" = 1.9mm
    Have T3 flanges, which can chnage to suit T6
    They dont even look like they have been used
    The flanges look a little light with +3/8"

    Mine is not a race boat as well, I just want to quickest to the fishing grounds
    thanks for your input
    cheers
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