Condensation or something worse...
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Condensation or something worse...

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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Default Condensation or something worse...

    ... so here's the deal. I've had the SS boat out a couple times and both times ended up with more moisture in the valve covers/heads than I'm used to seeing. I didn't build the motor, but did pull the pan/intake and look everything over before I ran it. No traces of water in it and it looks to be a very nicely built motor. All I did was add a water pump and put it back together.
    After the first time out, I saw a lot of moisture in the valve covers so I thought maybe I screwed up the intake gasket. I pulled the intake off and checked everything again. Didn't look like it was leaking so I put it back togehter. We tested the boat again over the weekend and after 2 10 lap sessions, pulled the valve cover and again quite a bit of moisture in the head/valve cover. The oil filter is clear and no water or water/oil mixture in the pan either time.
    I've never seen this much condensation without a problem, but also never tested in 55* air with about 70% RH and 40* water through the oil cooler/engine. FWIW, Bubbletop ran his boat the same day and he didn't have as much moisture as I did, but more than he's used too. I'm thinking of testing again, but bypassing the water around oil cooler and maybe even pulling the water pump off to get more heat in the oil. Anything else I should look at or am I being unusually parnoid about this?? Appreciate any input.
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    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

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    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

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    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David 519 View Post
    ... so here's the deal. I've had the SS boat out a couple times and both times ended up with more moisture in the valve covers/heads than I'm used to seeing. I didn't build the motor, but did pull the pan/intake and look everything over before I ran it. No traces of water in it and it looks to be a very nicely built motor. All I did was add a water pump and put it back together.
    After the first time out, I saw a lot of moisture in the valve covers so I thought maybe I screwed up the intake gasket. I pulled the intake off and checked everything again. Didn't look like it was leaking so I put it back togehter. We tested the boat again over the weekend and after 2 10 lap sessions, pulled the valve cover and again quite a bit of moisture in the head/valve cover. The oil filter is clear and no water or water/oil mixture in the pan either time.
    I've never seen this much condensation without a problem, but also never tested in 55* air with about 70% RH and 40* water through the oil cooler/engine. FWIW, Bubbletop ran his boat the same day and he didn't have as much moisture as I did, but more than he's used too. I'm thinking of testing again, but bypassing the water around oil cooler and maybe even pulling the water pump off to get more heat in the oil. Anything else I should look at or am I being unusually parnoid about this?? Appreciate any input.
    Sounds like condensation. Just a little blow by condensing on the valve covers in cool air.

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    Senior Member wagspe208's Avatar
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    Condensation.
    High humidity
    Cold air
    Balls cold water in it.
    Wags

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    gn7
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    curious, what did the valley under the manifold look like.
    I agree, considering the conditions, sounds like condensation.
    What crankcase ventilation does it have? Breathers, exhaust E vac, PCV?



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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    curious, what did the valley under the manifold look like.
    I agree, considering the conditions, sounds like condensation.
    What crankcase ventilation does it have? Breathers, exhaust E vac, PCV?
    I haven't looked down into the valley, but I'd bet there's a bit of moisture from the return off the head. I should be out in the shop tomorrow and can confirm. Crankcase vent is another issue. The motor just has basic vents, one on each VC as pictured. I usually run at least a pan evac if not a vacuum pump but I left this pretty much as I got it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by David 519 View Post
    I haven't looked down into the valley, but I'd bet there's a bit of moisture from the return off the head. I should be out in the shop tomorrow and can confirm. Crankcase vent is another issue. The motor just has basic vents, one on each VC as pictured. I usually run at least a pan evac if not a vacuum pump but I left this pretty much as I got it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I bet its just condensate. Breathers don't do a great job of allowing the water vapor to pass, and its not being pulled. The top side of the heads can be pretty cool place, specially if it has alum valve covers and its cool outside. The hottest part of the head is over the exhaust ports. Virtually everything else except the springs that the oil comes in contact with will cool the oil. Add in that the engine creates a depression as it cools off and sucks in outside air that passes straight in thru the breathers, and bam, water. Do this a couple times, never get the oil hot enough to boil it out and it just builds up with each run.

    I only asked about the valley because I thought you posted that you removed the manifold.
    Stopping the water from going to the cooler may help, but most of moisture is coming in after the engine is shut off, and then you never get it hot enough to drive it out.



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    The depression sucks

    And then i was wondering...i run breathers plumbed to the collector with a check valve, dipstick tube has a push in rubber plug... When it cools down i guess it sucks air past the rings?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldHondaBoughtHondo View Post
    The depression sucks

    And then i was wondering...i run breathers plumbed to the collector with a check valve, dipstick tube has a push in rubber plug... When it cools down i guess it sucks air past the rings?
    Not necessarily. There is water vapor in the exhaust gases as well. Blowby has a fair amount of water vapor in it. If you don't boil it out, it just builds up. Followed by bearing eating acids



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    No moisture in the oil ever. I was just thinking that because mine can't suck cool air in through the breathers and the only place it can suck is past the rings the air it does suck is warmed from engine temp and will have much less moisture it i should not have any issues with moisture in the oil, which i don't.
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldHondaBoughtHondo View Post
    No moisture in the oil ever. I was just thinking that because mine can't suck cool air in through the breathers and the only place it can suck is past the rings the air it does suck is warmed from engine temp and will have much less moisture it i should not have any issues with moisture in the oil, which i don't.
    Back before you were even a dirty thought in your daddy's mind, we had these little things called road draft tubes. Made a mess of the underside of the car. Buy besides that, they left a yellow milky puke at every stop light. That was when cars ran 160 stats and most of the time the oil never got above 180-200 max except on the highway.
    The water vapor is in there, you just manage to keep the oil hot enough to keep if from building up. Plus the exhaust evac keeps the wate vapor in the engine at any one time to a minimum.
    The road draft tube did a reasonable job of it too, at speed. Around town, it didn't do shit except drip. But it still did a better job than valve cover breathers.

    So SHBH, can you ID the engine?




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    Last edited by gn7; 02-04-2013 at 10:23 PM.

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    265 in a 56?
    Hot is a good thing. Keeps water out, takes less hp to turn the pump and finds it's way back to the pan faster.
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
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    Just pressure test the cooling system and take all the guesswork out of it.
    It either holds pressure or it doesn't.

    A ball valve, a regulator, and a gauge. You probably have everything laying on the shelf.

    Last edited by Unchained; 02-05-2013 at 02:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldHondaBoughtHondo View Post
    265 in a 56?
    Hot is a good thing. Keeps water out, takes less hp to turn the pump and finds it's way back to the pan faster.
    '55. No oil filter and 283's have a notch in the flywheel flange about the size of your thumb.



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    Last edited by gn7; 02-05-2013 at 08:12 AM.

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    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Not necessarily. There is water vapor in the exhaust gases as well. Blowby has a fair amount of water vapor in it. If you don't boil it out, it just builds up. Followed by bearing eating acids
    X2. Absolutely agree.

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