Water-meth injection on blown bbc
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Water-meth injection on blown bbc

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    custom member raped southwind's Avatar
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    Default Water-meth injection on blown bbc

    Anyone have any experience with water/meth injection on a roots style blower motor.
    Would I be better of drilling and tapping the intake ports( like a nos fogger set-up) or running carb plates ? Any advice on jet sizes ? Not too much info on roots style blower applications!

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    On aviation applications a 50/50 mix of alky/water was introduced prior to supercharging to cool the incoming charge...and serve as an anti-detonation agent. You can possibly pursue this path. Remember the old unlimited hydros did this on the RR's and Allisons.

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    Check out Snow performance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspeeddemon View Post
    Check out Snow performance
    Yes I have looked over there site. Not much info on roots blower set-ups! I may give them a call tomorrow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raped southwind View Post
    Yes I have looked over there site. Not much info on roots blower set-ups! I may give them a call tomorrow!
    If you want something that will work, but was designed around a diesel truck, or a stock OEM car, then Snow is fine. If you want somethhing closer to you and has a little better tech support and you can work with to come up with something a "little" support and tailored little more towards your application, then AEM on 126th in Hawthorne is probably a better choice.

    If you want a REAL performance setup with REAL tech support, and actually designed for your exact application the Devil's Own is the place.

    LINK: Devil's Own



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    It doesn't require a pre-engineered system to achieve detonation control on a roots blown motor. Attached is a photo of a stone basic home-made water/alcohol injection system I ran on one of my previous flats. My son has also run the same system on his blown v-drive Cougar. Two old friends of mine, Rick Timossi & Gary Davis were running this in the early 80's because they were essentially to cheap to buy race gas! Smart guys, cuz it really worked. Basically a small tank, -8 line anywhere from the intake manifold, blower boost pressurizes the tank, small hard-line into the scoop over each carb with a .025 drilled hole. That's it.......it only sprays the 50/50 mix of water/methanol when then the motor needs it.....under boost. Pressure relief button on the tank cap and a small drain to empty tank when in storage. The entire system can be built for $100-150. Jocko
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    I'd rather shoot water in the engine with a squirt gun than push it in with 8psi. If you want to get that hack, I used a windshield washer pump. IN HIGH SCHOOL!!!



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    Last edited by gn7; 03-10-2013 at 11:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    I'd rather shoot water in the engine with a squirt gun than push it in with 8psi. If you want to get that hack, I used a windshield washer pump. IN HIGH SCHOOL!!!
    Hey Bob, that old idea has been used by many of the old timers. And it works. No moving parts, and the engine only needs it when under boost anyway. The nozzle size can be adjusted to literaly Dump fuel in if you desire. While i agree with you that a piss stream into each carb may not be optimum, I bet that I could come up with a nozzle to spray it into each carb.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
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    Tried that exact same boost pressured system and a Snow high pressure deal on the dyno. I put a boost switch and a solenoid in the pressure line to open at 10 psi of boost.
    Same scenario, now this was a screw blown engine, lost a minimum of 25 hp without any carb changes
    Tried all different mixture combos, dual and single spray nozzles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    I'd rather shoot water in the engine with a squirt gun than push it in with 8psi. If you want to get that hack, I used a windshield washer pump. IN HIGH SCHOOL!!!
    I never said it only had 8 psi........actually had 12-13psi. Bob, what is hack about a system with no moving parts that is proven to work? Come on now, you know you used a WW pump in high school because you probably didn't have a blower! Lol. Jocko

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    Quote Originally Posted by jockorace View Post
    It doesn't require a pre-engineered system to achieve detonation control on a roots blown motor. Attached is a photo of a stone basic home-made water/alcohol injection system I ran on one of my previous flats. My son has also run the same system on his blown v-drive Cougar. Two old friends of mine, Rick Timossi & Gary Davis were running this in the early 80's because they were essentially to cheap to buy race gas! Smart guys, cuz it really worked. Basically a small tank, -8 line anywhere from the intake manifold, blower boost pressurizes the tank, small hard-line into the scoop over each carb with a .025 drilled hole. That's it.......it only sprays the 50/50 mix of water/methanol when then the motor needs it.....under boost. Pressure relief button on the tank cap and a small drain to empty tank when in storage. The entire system can be built for $100-150. Jocko
    This is exactly why i am going this route.


    Thanks for all the info so far guys. Not looking for more power but rather a cheaper alternative to race fuel/detonation control

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHAWN DAVIS View Post
    Tried that exact same boost pressured system and a Snow high pressure deal on the dyno. I put a boost switch and a solenoid in the pressure line to open at 10 psi of boost.
    Same scenario, now this was a screw blown engine, lost a minimum of 25 hp without any carb changes
    Tried all different mixture combos, dual and single spray nozzles.
    The idea that water injection can create HP is a wives tale. Even if its a 50/50 meth mix. It can only make power if you gas is inadequite for the engine build. The right gas will always make more power. It will allow you to make more power than you can on shit gas without it. Its a cheap bandaid and nothing more.

    If you lost HP with it, it probably because your build didn't need it to produce its max power. Water/meth is not a power adder.

    One thing alot of people over look is that if your AF is dead on with the water/meth injection off, its rich when it on.
    If your AF is dead on with the injection on, then you lean with it off. You can't have it both ways. Its just another reason that it is not a power adder to an engine that doesn't detonate without it.

    An exhaust recycle can repress detonation, but nobody ever called one of those a power adder.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    The idea that water injection can create HP is a wives tale. Even if its a 50/50 meth mix. It can only make power if you gas is inadequite for the engine build. The right gas will always make more power. It will allow you to make more power than you can on shit gas without it. Its a cheap bandaid and nothing more.

    If you lost HP with it, it probably because your build didn't need it to produce its max power. Water/meth is not a power adder.

    One thing alot of people over look is that if your AF is dead on with the water/meth injection off, its rich when it on.
    If your AF is dead on with the injection on, then you lean with it off. You can't have it both ways. Its just another reason that it is not a power adder to an engine that doesn't detonate without it.

    An exhaust recycle can repress detonation, but nobody ever called one of those a power adder.

    Bob is 100% correct in what's stated above. However, I don't think anyone (on this thread) even hinted at using it to gain power. It is for detonation control only. The friends I mentioned and I were using it on blown lake flats that we ran a lot on a weekend. Thus the desire to run pump gas, limited spark advance and the W/A injection...........and still be able to safely step on it when a lake race came along. It worked great! Jocko

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    Quote Originally Posted by jockorace View Post


    Bob is 100% correct in what's stated above. However, I don't think anyone (on this thread) even hinted at using it to gain power. It is for detonation control only. The friends I mentioned and I were using it on blown lake flats that we ran a lot on a weekend. Thus the desire to run pump gas, limited spark advance and the W/A injection...........and still be able to safely step on it when a lake race came along. It worked great! Jocko
    If you get really tricky you can add in a spark timer control that allows the timing to advance when the water/meth is injected which will add power to a pump gas only deal. The better commercial units sometimes have this built in, as well as a safety that won't let the timing advance if the water/meth isn't actually flowing. There are some benefits to the commercial units. Mist size and control and timing. Some are boost/rpm modulated like NOS systems. More RPM, or more boost, more mixture. Safeties, warning lights to let you know there is a problem.

    With EFI, the system ECM will even back off the gas mixture when the meth is activated to keep the AF correct.
    Turbo/blown EFI and water/meth kicks ass for cheap HP.



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