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cometics w/ orings

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    Senior Member wagspe208's Avatar
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    Default cometics w/ orings

    Anyone use cometics on an o ringed block? Or pull out rings and run it?
    I am working on a rebuild, new (to me) piece. Copper .060 head gaskets, orings, OF COURSE NO RECEIVER GROOVES.

    And imagine this... some leakage towards intake side.... f me.
    Wags

    I am cool with copper and groves, or cometics. I never have been a fan of o ring, no grooves. He may build a new piece next year (short block) so, I'd hate to put receiver groove in the heads, then have to mill em out.

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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagspe208 View Post
    Anyone use cometics on an o ringed block? Or pull out rings and run it?
    I am working on a rebuild, new (to me) piece. Copper .060 head gaskets, orings, OF COURSE NO RECEIVER GROOVES.

    And imagine this... some leakage towards intake side.... f me.
    Wags

    I am cool with copper and groves, or cometics. I never have been a fan of o ring, no grooves. He may build a new piece next year (short block) so, I'd hate to put receiver groove in the heads, then have to mill em out.
    I ran Nelson's blown 509 with grooves, no wire and Comtetics. I'm probably going to run my blown 540 with Cometics, grooves and no wire. I ran copper wire in the grooves of Nelson's engine last time that only stuck up about .005", thinking the soft copper would just crush and fill the groove some...but it cut through the thin outside layer of the gasket in some places. Seemed to seal OK. This time it;s a 548, more boost, more cam, more cyl. head, so I'm going with stainless wire and Flat Out copper gaskets. No receiver grooves.
    I also ran Cometics on my 467 with grooves and no wire...but never had it apart to see if there were issues. I ran the standard composite Felpros that way with no issues.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 03-17-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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    Ain't Right Racin piston in the wind's Avatar
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    Could you deck it with the wire in it & stop at the deck ??

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    Canoe Jockey Michael Thomas's Avatar
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    Steve thanks for starting this thread...
    I got my new engine back from the shop and I noticed that it had mls cometics in it. The block has o rings. I asked them about this and they said that I would not have any issues and it is a standard in thier shop...so I took that as gospil. It is blown and injected alky piece. I run a fresh 10:71 @ 14%, not sure what the boost levels are. I just use it as a pleasure boat and has less than 2 hours on it. Everything was fine until I lost water to it. I shut it down and water temp was @ 245. Now when I run the boat my even bank runs 20-30 degrees hotter than the odd side. I have compression, and leaked tested the engine and I am happy with the results. But I still loose sleep over it...you know the feeling....something just aint right. I get on Cometics web site and find out that mls gaskets should not be used with block o rings...BAM I am on the phone with Cometic Tech....then called the builder. I am down to pulling the heads...well see what gives and I'll post my findings
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  7. #5
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    I just use it as a pleasure boat and has less than 2 hours on it. Everything was fine until I lost water to it. I shut it down and water temp was @ 245. Now when I run the boat my even bank runs 20-30 degrees hotter than the odd side.
    What was the cause of the water loss



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    Canoe Jockey Michael Thomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    What was the cause of the water loss
    Bob I picked up a plastic bag on the intake
    "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...Baffle them with bullshit"

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Bob I picked up a plastic bag on the intake
    Thought maybe you lost an impeller.

    Are you running any sort of balance line between the decks or between the pump outlets?
    Are you sure you had no temperature difference before you lost the water supply?

    Blower maniolds like the the Mooneyham, Littlefield, Blower Shop are completely seperated between decks, as opposed to a carb manifold where there is a cross over between the decks where the thermostat is. Its not uncommon to have an imbalance of water flow and with no cross over between the decks, one will run hotter.



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    Canoe Jockey Michael Thomas's Avatar
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    Bob I thought about it and it could be possible that I never had equal temp. The only time I check both side temps are on the trailer or at a idle or after a pass...The gauges are on the end of the heads...I even traded sides with them. They both read the same as the engine starts to warm. I have even run it in a bucket and get it up to 200 on both sides. I just had a neck operation and the even bank gauge is directly behind me. It is a little hard to monitor any gauge in the boat when romp on it, it is a hydro. I do use a Littlefield manifold. I am plumbed with a tee off the pump discharge...1/2" hard lines to the front water passages in a half filled block and discharge starting from the even side with a -8 elbow in front crossing to the odd bank teed to the overboard
    Also it did take out the impeller....I found every piece
    Last edited by Michael Thomas; 03-24-2013 at 05:58 PM.
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    Senior Member jimclauss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    I ran Nelson's blown 509 with grooves, no wire and Comtetics. I'm probably going to run my blown 540 with Cometics, grooves and no wire. I ran copper wire in the grooves of Nelson's engine last time that only stuck up about .005", thinking the soft copper would just crush and fill the groove some...but it cut through the thin outside layer of the gasket in some places. Seemed to seal OK. This time it;s a 548, more boost, more cam, more cyl. head, so I'm going with stainless wire and Flat Out copper gaskets. No receiver grooves.
    I also ran Cometics on my 467 with grooves and no wire...but never had it apart to see if there were issues. I ran the standard composite Felpros that way with no issues.
    I always put the wire in the head and the receiver grove in the block Never had a gasket blow.

  12. #10
    Senior Member jimclauss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piston in the wind View Post
    Could you deck it with the wire in it & stop at the deck ??
    I doubt it the wire will pull out ( I think)

  13. #11
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimclauss View Post
    I doubt it the wire will pull out ( I think)
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  14. #12
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Steve thanks for starting this thread...
    I got my new engine back from the shop and I noticed that it had mls cometics in it. The block has o rings. I asked them about this and they said that I would not have any issues and it is a standard in thier shop...so I took that as gospil. It is blown and injected alky piece. I run a fresh 10:71 @ 14%, not sure what the boost levels are. I just use it as a pleasure boat and has less than 2 hours on it. Everything was fine until I lost water to it. I shut it down and water temp was @ 245. Now when I run the boat my even bank runs 20-30 degrees hotter than the odd side. I have compression, and leaked tested the engine and I am happy with the results. But I still loose sleep over it...you know the feeling....something just aint right. I get on Cometics web site and find out that mls gaskets should not be used with block o rings...BAM I am on the phone with Cometic Tech....then called the builder. I am down to pulling the heads...well see what gives and I'll post my findings
    I doubt very much they put a standards o-ring in the block and used the Cometics. The heads would never torque down and seal around the water passages. My guess is they ran them with no wire which is not uncommon.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
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  15. #13
    Senior Member Bigblockbill's Avatar
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    My block had grooves in the block so I hammered in copper electrical wire then decked it, worked awesome and even looks pretty cool. So if you did not like the wire or wanted a better sealing surface at the ends of the wire pull them and hammer in copper and overlap the ends a little then deck it.
    24' Eliminator Fundeck

  16. #14
    Canoe Jockey Michael Thomas's Avatar
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    Scott the wire is in the block...
    "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...Baffle them with bullshit"

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