Holley Questions (Yes...another Holley thread!)
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Holley Questions (Yes...another Holley thread!)

  1. #1
    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Default Holley Questions (Yes...another Holley thread!)

    So last year I ran 2 6109's with Allstate Carb billet plates on my TR. The Engine ran good although the plugs seemed to always "read" rich.
    On the Dyno the engine made more power the bigger we went on the secondary jets.


    It was dynoed around 575 HP at Appr. 5500 RPM. (It did have a lifter issue at the time. After replacing with Morrells and fixing that, it never went back on the dyno)

    I ran it last year with 74's on the primary sides, 65 power valves, and 76's in the secondaries. (Max power on the dyno was with the 74's, 65 PV's, and 80's in the secondaries.)

    The Holley sheet says that 6109's came with 75's and 76's with an 85 PV.

    Ok, having said all that, I have bought 2 Holley main bodies new ( 134-300) Here Holley Carburetor Main Bodies 134-300S - SummitRacing.com

    The base plates I have are actually sold by allstate as replacements for 4779 carbs, as are the new bodies.

    So in effect, I now have a set of 4779 carbs with side hung floats.

    My question is this.

    What would be a good starting point for jet size and with or without the power valves?

    Holley lists the sizes all over the map as far as 4779's go.
    The new bodies came with 72's and 84's...which seem pretty drastic a difference between primary and secondaries?

    The engine is 454 with just under 10:1 compression, Brodix 280 cc Rectangles, Comp Extreme Marine Hyd. roller (Here COMP Cams Xtreme Marine Camshafts 11-456-8 - SummitRacing.com )

    Power valves sort of confuse me ...(Yeah, I'm a little slow sometimes!!)
    Does the 65 power valve make the engine run richer than an 85 with the same vacuum?

    any help or advice is appreciated greatly!
    I am thinking the 65 PV's, with 74's primary, and maybe 78's secondary?

    I know that the old bodies did have a loose booster that could have been dumping fuel and causing the rich plug readings. (which was part of my my reason for replacing the bodies)

    I usually go off the Holley data sheet, but like I said, every 4779 is way different for jetting.

    Thanks!!

    Last edited by thatguy; 03-24-2013 at 07:50 PM.
    Tommy
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    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
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    Senior Member Bubbletop409's Avatar
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    I pretty much have the same carbs, 750 main bodies, Quick Fuel billet metering blocks and base plates. Pump gas 565, Eddie TR base with a billet top and a 1" spacer, my combo likes 71 mains, 78 secondary, with a 4.0 PV. I have 6" velocity stacks topped with 5 X 9 K&N air filters. Those jets that come with the kit are way conserative for most applications.

    The PV number indicates the vacuum at which the valve will open, for any given engine vacuum, a valve with a HIGHER number will tend to run rich due to opening sooner. An easy way to determine what you need is take a vacuum reading in gear at idle, and use a valve with approximately half of that reading.
    Last edited by Bubbletop409; 03-24-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbletop409 View Post
    I pretty much have the same carbs, 750 main bodies, Quick Fuel billet metering blocks and base plates. Pump gas 565, Eddie TR base with a billet top and a 1" spacer, my combo likes 71 mains, 78 secondary, with a 4.0 PV. I have 6" velocity stacks topped with 5 X 9 K&N air filters. Those jets that come with the kit are way conserative for most applications.

    The PV number indicates the vacuum at which the valve will open, for any given engine vacuum, a valve with a HIGHER number will tend to run rich due to opening sooner. An easy way to determine what you need is take a vacuum reading in gear at idle, and use a valve with approximately half of that reading.
    Thanks Bubbletop!
    That is how I came up with the 65's.
    Tommy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexone View Post
    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    gn7
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    Like Bubbletop posted, the lower the number the more you have to get into the throttle or the lower the vacuum has to drop for it to open. A 8.5 will open sooner and therefore probably run richer for a given throttle position than a 6.5. A 8.5 may infact open TOO EARLY and make the richness even more pronounced. Notice Bubbletop is running 4.0 PVs which delay the opening even more. It really depends on the boat size weight/engine size & HP/ and the usage. Be aware though, that with a T ram, you lower the manifold vacuum with much less throttle position than a single 4 bbl.

    You can't really determine the amount of split between the primary and secondary by looking to see what Holley did or does. New carbs from Holley are coming out with larger PV restrictors than in the past. At least carbs with choke plates. So when the PV opens it adds more fuel then it use to. Its an "emissions"& economy deal, even though the carbs are not emissions carbs. When the DP first came out it was the baddest boy on the block and considered a competition carb. Holley no longer lists the standard choked DP as a competitioncarb, its a street/strip carb.
    As the PV restrictor gets larger, the split between primary and secondary jets gets wider because the PV flows more fuel. The basic idea is to be square jetted when the PV is open.

    The best way to determine the size of the split, is to measure the PVR with a number drill, calc the area, and add that amount to the secondary jet over the primary size. But you have to keep this in mind with every jet change.



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    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    Kinda curious as to how this turns out???

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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    Kinda curious as to how this turns out???
    Well, got them together fine. Went with 72's and 78's and the 65 PV's.

    Installed them today, set floats and fired it up. (6 lbs. fuel pressure regulated)

    Warmed it up, checked timing (35* total at 2600 RPM, 14* initial at idle).

    I set idle mixture screws with vacuum gauge (Just over 1 turn out each). Got steady 10" vacuum at 950-1000 RPM with all blades 100% closed.

    Sounded great on the trailer!

    I am planning on taking it out for testing between now and Sunday if we get a decent day of weather.

    Looks like I may need to step down on PV rating considering the 10" of vacuum at idle?

    The new bodies have larger squirters in them also, they aren't marked, but they dump a hellish amount of fuel compared to my old ones that have the little nozzle tips in them.

    Here is a stupid question: I noticed my ignition switch is loose in the dash. Appears to be a Cole Hersee 550.

    How the hell do you remove the switch?? Does the front "crown nut" come off?



    Last edited by thatguy; 03-26-2013 at 09:49 PM.
    Tommy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexone View Post
    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post

    Here is a stupid question: I noticed my ignition switch is loose in the dash. Appears to be a Cole Hersee 550.

    How the hell do you remove the switch?? Does the front "crown nut" come off?
    Yes, the chrome face piece is threaded even though it round and doesn't have wrench flats.

    What you really need to do is drive it with a vac gauge connected so you can see the vac while cruising and see at what throttle it drops below 6.5. Hopefully its about the same time the secondaries start to come in.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Yes, the chrome face piece is threaded even though it round and doesn't have wrench flats.

    What you really need to do is drive it with a vac gauge connected so you can see the vac while cruising and see at what throttle it drops below 6.5. Hopefully its about the same time the secondaries start to come in.
    Thanks Bob, got the switch out and just have make a shim/ washer for the back of the dash.
    Tommy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexone View Post
    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    The new bodies have larger squirters in them also, they aren't marked, but they dump a hellish amount of fuel compared to my old ones that have the little nozzle tips in them.
    if you have a pin drill set, you can determine the size of the nozzles. not a bad idea to do, and know exactly what size you have in there.

    remember, the nozzle's only affect the amount of time it takes to pump all the fuel out of the acc pumps. big nozzles, less time. after running it for awhile, have someone watch it while you do some idle to wot accelerations. if you get black smoke at the hit, they may be a bit on the large side, causing it to be initially rich. you shouldn't need huge nozzles to get the thing to respond to the initial hit.

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    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    Still curious as to how it turned out???

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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    Still curious as to how it turned out???
    Didn't get on the water before I had to leave for work. I'll be in Utah now for a few weeks now.

    Wanted to go out Friday last, but Had a bunch of yard work to get done while it was nice out.
    Had everything ready for saturday, damned if it didn't rain.
    So I cut the top off the Sanger flatty instead.
    Tommy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexone View Post
    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Took the boat out finally!

    These bodies make more power, no question.
    Whether from the jetting or the bodies themselves I don't know.

    There is a bad stumble right at the hit from idle, but then hold on!

    I will change the squirters to the ones I had in the 6109 bodies and try that first. (Does the bigger squirter go in the primary or secondary side?)

    From any cruise RPM, say 3200 to 5000 or so, there is no stumble at all.

    Max RPM is up about 200 RPM to 5400. (About 80 MPH)

    It cruises as smooth as can be at any speed.
    Tommy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexone View Post
    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    Way sweet set of carbs..
    Baller..lol. I bet you spent more on those carbs than i did on my entire motor..including carbs
    As long as you have enough timing, off idle bog usually means it wants more fuel..ie more squirt on the primary's.
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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldHondaBoughtHondo View Post
    Way sweet set of carbs..
    Baller..lol. I bet you spent more on those carbs than i did on my entire motor..including carbs
    As long as you have enough timing, off idle bog usually means it wants more fuel..ie more squirt on the primary's.
    Right! LOL!
    I'm on a shoestring budget!

    Last year I got the plates, this year I got the bodies.

    They are bastards to a large degree.
    Dual inlet, side hung, the idle mixture screws are only in the primary block but the Allstate billet base plates do not have the transfer slot like the original 6109 base plates.
    Not sure how that works, but several people that know more than I do have said that's not a problem.

    Question.
    When I took the squirters off the old 6109 bodies I didn't notice that the primary and secondary squirters were different sizes. Does the bigger one normally go on the primary or secondary?
    Last edited by thatguy; 05-20-2013 at 09:31 AM.
    Tommy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexone View Post
    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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