Engine set up questions. Drag Boat to Cruiser
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Engine set up questions. Drag Boat to Cruiser

  1. #1
    Member StreetMoto's Avatar
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    Default Engine set up questions. Drag Boat to Cruiser

    Hey guys,
    We had a 540 short block built about 6 years ago with the intention of running it in our TR2 (Former SPOOKY Boat). We ended up using a different set up and the 540 sat in the garage until now. Iíll be putting it in a 21í V-Drive Rayson Craft and wanted to get some suggestions on what needs to change in the set up.
    This boat will not be my primary boat, just a water hot rod that Iíll take out on occasion for blasts up and down the river and head into Havasu on occasion. I wonít be doing any watersports behind it, but it will spend some time idling through 5mph zones (in the gorge going to and from the lake). It will be set up with EFI and tuned for 91 octane. The details of what I have are listed below, please let me know if I need to add anything else.

    Everything is new and only short block is assembled
    Dart Block
    JE Pistons PN181990
    Eagle 4340 Crank
    Eagle CRS63853d Rods
    Rotating assembly internally balanced
    Brodix BB-2 heads with Port & Polish and valve job by Mike at Sissells Automotive
    Manley 221424 valve springs, 250lb seat, 800lb open, .880Ē max lift
    Manley severe duty SS valves and Ti retainers
    We got the cam from Bill Barnes, Iím guessing this is one of the parts Iíll have to change out?
    Lift .775 intake, .740 Exhaust,
    Intake opens 31 BTDC, Closes 73 ABDC, max lift 109, Duration 284
    Exhaust opens 85 BBDC, Closes 31 ATDC, max lift 119, Duration 296
    Morel Sportsman roller Lifters (we thought these were solid when we purchased them, but realize now after opening the box that theyíre hyd.)
    Mildon Gear Drive #12700
    Intercooled Littlefield mag 1271. Planned on running around 10lbs of boost
    MS3x EFI using modified Enderle Hat as the TB
    Ign will be COP with LS truck coils
    Not sure if it matters, but it will be running through a TH400

    I have a separate thread for feedback on using the Enderle hat with EFI on a cruiser. I know this isnít ideal, but itís something Iím having fun with trying to make it work.
    The main issue I see is the cam. Will this work or do I have to swap it out? If swap, what cam does everyone suggest? Iím guessing the cam selection will determine if I use the Morel hyd lifters or sell them for solid (donít mind running valves every once and a while so solid lifters arenít an issue)? What else should I change? If possible with the feedback, Iíd like to know if the suggestions are ďMust ChangeĒ or ďIt will work, but work better if changedĒ so I can try to prioritize the money Iím burning on this project
    As usual, I really appreciate all the help from everyone over the years. Makes the sport much more enjoyable for NOOBs like me!

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  3. #2
    gn7
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    Off the top of my head I would sayn you will want swap out the cam. Its probably fine for the build, but more than you'll want to deal with for a recreation boat.
    Not sure if the "sportaman" Morels are up the RPM capabilities of the engine. But if they are I would think a good hyd ground for the build would be the choice. They are grinding some pretty stout hyd rollers today.
    If the lifters aren't quite up to the potential of the build, then its a toss up whether you go with a solid or hyd.

    I would keep in mind that unless you're looking to build a pure rocket, that even a mild hyd roller that doesn't require the top of line hi rev/hi spring pressure lifters will still make a boat load of power with less engine killing RPM. You have a 7000+ cam now. Not sure you need that kind of RPM for what you're looking to do. 6500 will still accelerate like a run away train in that hull. With the trans you can gear it for speed and still have you acceleration without wringing its neck to do it.

    Sounds like kick ass river boat!!!



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    steelcomp was here
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    IMO that's a whole lot of cam for what you want to do with the boat.
    Do you have any actual flow numbers for the heads?
    What's the exhaust you're running?
    You can put a hyd roller in that thing and make 1K hp easy and your Morel Sportsman lifters are fine for that. Just need some flow numbers for a cam spec.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Off the top of my head I would sayn you will want swap out the cam. Its probably fine for the build, but more than you'll want to deal with for a recreation boat. Not sure if the "sportaman" Morels are up the RPM capabilities of the engine. But if they are I would think a good hyd ground for the build would be the choice. They are grinding some pretty stout hyd rollers today. If the lifters aren't quite up to the potential of the build, then its a toss up whether you go with a solid or hyd. I would keep in mind that unless you're looking to build a pure rocket, that even a mild hyd roller that doesn't require the top of line hi rev/hi spring pressure lifters will still make a boat load of power with less engine killing RPM. You have a 7000+ cam now. Not sure you need that kind of RPM for what you're looking to do. 6500 will still accelerate like a run away train in that hull. With the trans you can gear it for speed and still have you acceleration without wringing its neck to do it. Sounds like kick ass river boat!!!
    Thanks GN Do you have a hyd cam in mind that you'd pick if this were yours or should I look into getting one custom ground?

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    IMO that's a whole lot of cam for what you want to do with the boat.
    Do you have any actual flow numbers for the heads?
    What's the exhaust you're running?
    You can put a hyd roller in that thing and make 1K hp easy and your Morel Sportsman lifters are fine for that. Just need some flow numbers for a cam spec.
    I don't have any flow #s for the heads but it looks like a lot of work was done to them. I was partners with my brother and dad in this motor at the time and my brother is who worked with Mike on the heads. I have the receipt for everything that was done, but don't see any numbers listed. I was told he does pretty good work and at the time, he was doing some of the head work for Teague. Can I use the cam I have as a core or should I just sell it and start from scratch? Thanks SteelComp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    IMO that's a whole lot of cam for what you want to do with the boat.
    Do you have any actual flow numbers for the heads?
    What's the exhaust you're running?
    You can put a hyd roller in that thing and make 1K hp easy and your Morel Sportsman lifters are fine for that. Just need some flow numbers for a cam spec.
    Sorry, forgot about the exhaust.
    I'm building full length headers that will transition to 3 1/2" pipes after the collecter, then out through the transom. They will be Jacketed, but the water won't ever be introduced into the exhaust (double walled until the end of the tips). They will be under water at idle if that makes any difference.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetMoto View Post
    Thanks GN Do you have a hyd cam in mind that you'd pick if this were yours or should I look into getting one custom ground?
    Heres what I think and please do not take this personal. I think this whole project is well outside your capabiltiy to complete correctly, and you should just load everything you have into the boat and sell it to ME cheap and just cut your loses while you're ahead.
    You asked, I thats what I think. Your opinion my vary.

    I look at the list of goodies and I think the only uh oh is the cam. With all that the build has going for it other than that, it would be ashame to put in anything other than a custom grind. Its so little xtra over a shelf cam that the build DEMANDS it. I have seen plenty of builds, even blown deals that a custom is like ehh, really? This is not one of those. You have plenty of motor there. You might as well get what its capable of making with a reasonably RPM that doesn't make you a slave to it. Like Steel said, with the right cam making 1000HP is as hard as pushing it out of a truck and you won't have to kill it to get it.

    Offer stands for 24hrs max if you decide to walk away from it now.



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    Last edited by gn7; 04-05-2013 at 05:15 PM.

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    Default Too Much Motor!

    You will NOT be running 91 octane fuel if your compression is over 10 1/2:1. If you didn't relieve the valve spring pressure, you will probably start floating your valves and popping from detonation- even with C-12. Double up on shim head gaskets is the easy fix. There is a tool for testing spring pressure. The key is EVEN spring pressure across the board. I would just pick up a stock 502 and put a little bumpity bump high lift short duration cam (and always change lifters in a solid lifter setup). Stock is reliable and a 502 will please yer eyes & ears...
    have fun
    dp

    ps Rudy Ramos raced a 21 ft Rayson Craft in the GN class in the 70's...
    Last edited by Got to be wet!; 04-05-2013 at 05:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Got to be wet! View Post
    You will NOT be running 91 octane fuel if your compression is over 10 1/2:1. If you didn't relieve the valve spring pressure, you will probably start floating your valves and popping from detonation- even with C-12. Double up on shim head gaskets is the easy fix. There is a tool for testing spring pressure. The key is EVEN spring pressure across the board. I would just pick up a stock 502 and put a little bumpity bump high lift short duration cam (and always change lifters in a solid lifter setup). Stock is reliable and a 502 will please yer eyes & ears...
    have fun
    dp

    ps Rudy Ramos raced a 21 ft Rayson Craft in the GN class in the 70's...
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Senior Member Hass828's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Got to be wet! View Post
    You will NOT be running 91 octane fuel if your compression is over 10 1/2:1. If you didn't relieve the valve spring pressure, you will probably start floating your valves and popping from detonation- even with C-12. Double up on shim head gaskets is the easy fix. There is a tool for testing spring pressure. The key is EVEN spring pressure across the board. I would just pick up a stock 502 and put a little bumpity bump high lift short duration cam (and always change lifters in a solid lifter setup). Stock is reliable and a 502 will please yer eyes & ears...
    have fun
    dp

    ps Rudy Ramos raced a 21 ft Rayson Craft in the GN class in the 70's...
    listen to Steel & GN
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
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    Smile

    These goobers can clown me all they want. But short of replacing your pistons to lower your compression, you will be paying $10 a gallon for C12. Not the ideal situation for a cruiser. And after rereading your post I realized you don't have to concern yerself with collapsed springs. 6 years is a long time for a valve spring to be left open. And the compression issue can be dealt with steel shim head gaskets. Now, tell me I'm wrong Goobers...(I'm sure they are really nice boys...).
    Last edited by Got to be wet!; 04-06-2013 at 08:35 AM.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Got to be wet! View Post
    These goobers can clown me all they want. But short of replacing your pistons to lower your compression, you will be paying $10 a gallon for C12. Not the ideal situation for a cruiser. And after rereading your post I realized you don't have to concern yerself with collapsed springs. 6 years is a long time for a valve spring to be left open. And the compression issue can be dealt with steel shim head gaskets. Now, tell me I'm wrong Goobers...(I'm sure they are really nice boys...).
    Heres the problem with your post.

    He never mentions the compression ratio and you are already telling him to lowering it.
    Opening description of the build states: WE ONLY HAVE THE SHORT BLOCK ASSEMBLED NOW
    Yet you assume the valve spriings are shot even when he mentions the lifters are still in the box.

    Thats not all that is wrong with your post, buy enough to say you have no right to call any of us here CLOWNS. If there is a clown on this thread, its not one of us.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Got to be wet!;2067418[B
    ]$10 a gallon for C12[/B]
    Ah the good ol days, 110 just went up to $11.75 a gallon up here .... just sayin

    (thinkin this thread might just get interesting )

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