Lake boat or street car with Roots and Mechanical Fuel Injection???
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Lake boat or street car with Roots and Mechanical Fuel Injection???

  1. #1
    Senior Member Bigblockbill's Avatar
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    Default Lake boat or street car with Roots and Mechanical Fuel Injection???

    How bad do you think I would be kicking my self if I tried to do a mechanical fuel injection system on a street/strip car? I already have all the parts and I can buy a lot of oil changes for what it would cost to go out and buy all the EFI components. Or should I just kick the bullet, spend the money and go EFI?
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    Call Ralph Gorr, he flows systems for street cars, real good guy to. He'll give you lots of information on set up and he answers the phone if you have any problems

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    Senior Member Trigger's Avatar
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    If you are going Enderle, I would highly recommend talking with Jim at Enderle and letting him set it up for you.

    I had the same question. I have a flatbottom lake boat with enderle bird catcher mechanical injection and was really fighting it last year. This winter I took the entire fuel system from the pump to hat and sent it to Enderle for a rebuild and some help. I had a short conversation with Jim and wrote out a detailed spec sheet for my engine that I enclosed in the box I shipped it all in. He flowed and adjusted everything to that spec sheet and my desire for a "lakeable hotrod" and sent it back in very short order and with a waaay cheaper bill than expected. I put it all back together and all I have had to do since was bump the idle up 1 flat so it would idle in gear. The more accurate you are with your specs, the closer it will be when it returns. Best of luck in what ever you choose!

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    Senior Member SHAWN DAVIS's Avatar
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    Yep Jim is the man, a wealth of fuel injection knowledge
    I did a 10/71 blown gas camaro earlier this year he helped gather up the pieces to get it running
    was still pretty tempermental and rich at times, got it fairly close. Could have gotten it better but it wasnt my car!

    Thinking about putting it on my Cole, but its pretty user friendly with carbs
    Unless someone else has some tun up info for a blown gas psi mfi setup

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    Ran blown gas for years in a hydro, Gorr fuel systems flowed it for me. There's things they can do to the ramp on the spool,air bleeds you can op from driver seat. You have to remember there's basically 8 sewer pipes dumping fuel in the motor so you may have to lean it out wit an air bleed to get a cleaner idle in gear. Just remember to close it when you hit it hard. Also need a priming system foreasier starting. It's a little more involved than carbs but get it right and there's nothing like the throttle response. Like it was said you'll need your specs on the motor, CI,cranking comp, cam timing and cam specs and they can get you really close. There's a lot of good companies that flow systems I had great luck wit Ralph and Spike Gorr. Good luck, you'll love it.

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    Senior Member Bigblockbill's Avatar
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    Thanks I am incouraged to hear the positive words. Last group of folks i asked if it could be done pretty much all said no. What i have is all enderle stuff with a bird catcher on top. Its a new pump that I need to get flowed anyway so while I am doing that it sounds reasonable to send the rest of the components in and have someone set it up to be more street friendly.
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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblockbill View Post
    Or should I just bite the bullet, spend the money and go EFI?
    Yes.

    No matter who tunes the MFI system it has no load sensing.
    It will be rich all the time and that's just the way they are.
    The butterflys are huge in comparison to what your engine can flow so there will never be any throttle resolution.
    It will always be like an on/off switch.

    There is no question but that you will get way more use out of an EFI motor than a MFI motor.
    It won't contaminate the oil and wash down the cylinder walls.

    Even the cheapest EFI system is light years ahead of a garden hose MFI fuel system.
    If you go with a FAST EFI system I will email you a tune to get you started.
    It will be multi fuel capable too.

    Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
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    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    gn7
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    Mark, no offense, but you limited knowledge of MFI is WORSE than me talking EFI, and thats pretty bad.


    The whole thing about throttle resolution is TOTAL BULLSHIT. There are literally thousands of MFI systems out there with excellent throttle resolution.

    You started your post off with NO MATTER WHO, then "IT WILL ALWAYS BE OFF AND ON" and it will ALWAYS BE RICH.

    All total bullshit!!! Are there better throttle resolution options than a hat? Yes, but you spewed a blanket statement that is totally false.

    ALWAYS LEAN!!! REALLY? Like its impossible to torch a piston with a lean condition with MFI? Might what to rethink that insane comment!!!!! ALWAYS RICH. I can't even imagine where that thought came from.

    A MFI CAN have the throttle resolution equal to any carb or EFI. and it CAN be set up to follow pretty damn good fuel curve as well. I have seen some EFIs that had much much worse throttle resolution then some MFI systems.


    Is it load sensitive? At least as good as any Alpha N system. We went thru this already! Throttle position and RPM. What more do you need?

    What VARIABLE loads do you see in a small lake craft? Does it go up hill, down hill, head winds, tow a trailer? The load is what it is, and you can not put enough shit, people or fuel in a small craft for it to much matter. The load curve is pretty much fixed against its speed.

    Its ONLY draw back besides hoards of people that NO NOTHING about it and but INSANE UNINFORMED CLAIMS TO THE CONTRARY is it does not compensate for DA.

    I try to keep an open mind about all the systems, and the ONLY one I have for EFI is it is STUPID expesive and ZERO HP gain.
    EFI gurus think that if its doesn't cost 10,000 to set up, it will rnever run right. That pure BULLSHIT!

    Its wosre than a flipp'n religion with you guys



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Mark, no offense, but you limited knowledge of MFI is WORSE than me talking EFI, and thats pretty bad.


    The whole thing about throttle resolution is TOTAL BULLSHIT. There are literally thousands of MFI systems out there with excellent throttle resolution.

    You started your post off with NO MATTER WHO, then "IT WILL ALWAYS BE OFF AND ON" and it will ALWAYS BE RICH.

    All total bullshit!!! Are there better throttle resolution options than a hat? Yes, but you spewed a blanket statement that is totally false.

    ALWAYS LEAN!!! REALLY? Like its impossible to torch a piston with a lean condition with MFI? Might what to rethink that insane comment!!!!! ALWAYS RICH. I can't even imagine where that thought came from.

    A MFI CAN have the throttle resolution equal to any carb or EFI. and it CAN be set up to follow pretty damn good fuel curve as well. I have seen some EFIs that had much much worse throttle resolution then some MFI systems.


    Is it load sensitive? At least as good as any Alpha N system. We went thru this already! Throttle position and RPM. What more do you need?

    What VARIABLE loads do you see in a small lake craft? Does it go up hill, down hill, head winds, tow a trailer? The load is what it is, and you can not put enough shit, people or fuel in a small craft for it to much matter. The load curve is pretty much fixed against its speed.

    Its ONLY draw back besides hoards of people that NO NOTHING about it and but INSANE UNINFORMED CLAIMS TO THE CONTRARY is it does not compensate for DA.

    I try to keep an open mind about all the systems, and the ONLY one I have for EFI is it is STUPID expesive and ZERO HP gain.
    EFI gurus think that if its doesn't cost 10,000 to set up, it will rnever run right. That pure BULLSHIT!

    Its wosre than a flipp'n religion with you guys
    I was going to answer but ...I run mfi and am happy why the hell would I want to spend more money ....Bobs right ----AND MY COMPUTER IS MY PLUGS
    Last edited by mdsheppie; 04-22-2013 at 05:21 PM.

  12. #10
    gn7
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    MFI is no different that EFI in that its only as good as the person that sets it up or tunes it. I wouldn't let Mark with a 1000 yds of a MFI, and you have no idea how badly an EFI can run until you let me have the laptop. The difference being I am smart enough to know the problem is with me and my ability to map a fuel curve for a EFI. Marks is just plain lack of knowledge and based entirely on the shit piles he has seen with MFIs.

    I am glad I don't base my opinion of EFI on the performance of some of the systems I have seen in operation. My opinion is soley based on the KNOWN fact that its insanely expensive compared to carbs or MFI verses the performance difference IF ANY, and pretty sure it doesn't much care for swimming.



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    Senior Member ap67et10's Avatar
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    ....so how do you really feel bob??

    I fuel injected my 64 f100 with a 292 V8 for less than 500 bucks, truck has never run so good its entire beat down life, gets decent mileage now too!




    AP

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ap67et10 View Post
    ....so how do you really feel bob??

    I fuel injected my 64 f100 with a 292 V8 for less than 500 bucks, truck has never run so good its entire beat down life, gets decent mileage now too!




    AP
    Oh I have no doubt that a mass air system ripped from a post 88 5.0 among some others could used quite successfully on a number of low HP applications. I believe the OP is asking about a blown BBC.
    BTW, how are you on sitting up an MFI. I'm thinking not much better than Mark, and no better than I am at mapping an EFI. Only difference is I don't trash EFI as a piss poor performer that will flood you oil with fuel and have the throttle resolution of a light switch. Although we BOTH know it is easily possible with a shit designed system and a dipshit on the laptop.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Is it load sensitive? At least as good as any Alpha N system. We went thru this already! Throttle position and RPM. What more do you need?
    Load sensing means having the system be able to dial back to stoich for cruising or idling.
    That is not possible with a mechanical system.
    Many have posted on here that it is not possible with MFI. It needs to be rich to avoid a huge flat spot when you open those enormous butterflys.
    Many have posted on here that their oil is contaminated from running rich all the time.
    The nickname for the Enderle is "the wall washer" why do you suppose that is ?

    If there is a MFI guru somewhere that can make all those things happen I have never seen or heard of him.
    If that guru can post up the fuel curve they got out of it, that would be a first.........

    I've posted up mine several times.

    Hey if the OP wants to look cool and not use the car then he can go for a MFI system.
    I was offering a valid opinion that he asked for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    Default Mfi

    Back in the early 70s, Pete Jackson had an 8 stack MFI unit on his Ranchero. Started perfect and ran great. Pete claimed it got as good or better mileage than the carb did. It was his daily driver!
    Yes, it was the same Pete Jackson that made the injectors and the gear drive. The point is, if you know enough and understand enough about it, it can be made to work.

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