Octane?
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Octane?

  1. #1
    Without a boat hondoboat's Avatar
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    Default Octane?

    Can you have to much octane in your race fuel? Does it have negative side effects?

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  3. #2
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hondoboat View Post
    Can you have to much octane in your race fuel? Does it have negative side effects?
    Yes



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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Yes
    That's it?

    A one word answer???

    OK, who are you and what have you done with Bob?

    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    That's it?

    A one word answer???

    OK, who are you and what have you done with Bob?

    You're right. slight over sight on my behalf. He did ask 2 seperate questions.
    So its more like YES & YES.

    There. 2 words and a little symbol thingie



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    RPB
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    You're right. slight over sight on my behalf. He did ask 2 seperate questions.
    So its more like YES & YES.

    There. 2 words and a little symbol thingie
    Hahahahaha. Classic. So I will ask. What are the negatives of having to much octane, long term, short term, and on performance. Or be stuck with fluffy info-mercial
    Last edited by RPB; 04-29-2013 at 07:10 PM.

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    gn7
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    BOY! somebody needs to shut that company DOWN!!!
    That company has it all. False advertising, bogus claims, and a multi level pyramid marketing. Its a federal truth in advertising paradise. And to think they slammed Split Fire, Slick 50, and STP and others for much less. I figure their day will come. But by then they will have made a few million and fade away leaving their "dealers" without a product or advertising to move what they are holding. Until then, I guess its buyer beware and remember there is a sucker born every minute. And these guys are capitolizing on just that!!

    Hey, for a low low low investment of 499.00 you in as a dealer and golden

    LINK: XP3



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    Last edited by gn7; 04-29-2013 at 07:53 PM.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    BOY! somebody needs to shut that company DOWN!!!
    That company has it all. False advertising, bogus claims, and a multi level pyramid marketing. Its a federal truth in advertising paradise. And to think they slammed Split Fire, Slick 50, and STP and others for much less. I figure their day will come. But by then they will have made a few million and fade away leaving their "dealers" without a product or advertising to move what they are holding. Until then, I guess its buyer beware and remember there is a sucker born every minute. And these guys are capitolizing on just that!!

    Hey, for a low low low investment of 499.00 you in as a dealer and golden

    LINK: XP3
    Thought you and others might like that....I'm definitely buying some

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hondoboat View Post
    Can you have to much octane in your race fuel? Does it have negative side effects?
    I believe burn rates of fuel have a big affect on power production if you cant burn the fuel properly during the combustion cycle heat energy is just wasted down the tail pipe, you want all of your air fuel mixture used to push the piston down the hole if the fuel is still burning while its going out the exhaust its burning too slow, if it burns to fast you get pinging or detonation



    if im wrong school me

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowtiebro View Post
    I believe burn rates of fuel have a big affect on power production if you cant burn the fuel properly during the combustion cycle heat energy is just wasted down the tail pipe, you want all of your air fuel mixture used to push the piston down the hole if the fuel is still burning while its going out the exhaust its burning too slow, if it burns to fast you get pinging or detonation



    if im wrong school me
    Sure. Be glad to.

    Octane has nothing to do with flame speed, and detonation is not caused by fuel burning too fast.

    Detonation is brought on when the cylinder heat and pressures rise to the point that fuel self ignites much like diesel does.
    Octane is the index used to help determine the amount of pressure and heat the fuel can withstand before that happens.
    All gasolines have pretty much the same lfame speed. But they don't all have the same resistance it ignition from heat/pressure.

    Diesel burns slower than gasoline, yet has zip squat octane. If it did, it would be a bitch to get a diesel enigne started or even run.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Sure. Be glad to.

    Octane has nothing to do with flame speed, and detonation is not caused by fuel burning too fast.

    Detonation is brought on when the cylinder heat and pressures rise to the point that fuel self ignites much like diesel does.
    Octane is the index used to help determine the amount of pressure and heat the fuel can withstand before that happens.
    All gasolines have pretty much the same lfame speed. But they don't all have the same resistance it ignition from heat/pressure.

    Diesel burns slower than gasoline, yet has zip squat octane. If it did, it would be a bitch to get a diesel enigne started or even run.
    so why is to much octane bad then

  14. #12
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowtiebro View Post
    I believe burn rates of fuel have a big affect on power production if you cant burn the fuel properly during the combustion cycle heat energy is just wasted down the tail pipe, you want all of your air fuel mixture used to push the piston down the hole if the fuel is still burning while its going out the exhaust its burning too slow, if it burns to fast you get pinging or detonation



    if im wrong school me
    Quote Originally Posted by bowtiebro View Post
    so why is to much octane bad then
    First you wanted to be schooled. Now you just want the answers

    We'll start with this

    http://www.rockettbrand.com/techsupp...ationships.pdf



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    "The more you put in, the faster you will go".

    Is it just me? I wasn't think fuel additive when she said that.
    "Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though" President Barack Obama.

    Liberals just chose to ignore relevant information about the world they live in, and then call themselves sophisticated for having chosen to be more stupid than God made them.

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    Some more schooling. Technically you can make more power with detonation occuring because your are consuming the combustiable air fule mixture from multiple points and the flame fronts are faster than just originating from the spark plug. The down side is it is hard on equipment. There is no benefit to having more octane that just enough to prevent detonation under the conditions at the time. At the same time, there is no significant negative affects from having more or higher octane than is required. Below is pretty good discussion I found. Pretty much goes along with information already shared by GN7.

    About octane ratings and burn speeds ------> An important point is almost always missing from these discussions.
    What must be realized to really understand what's going on is this: There is more than one TYPE of combustion that can take place.
    The two relevant types for this discussion are deflagration and detonation. They are two distinctly different phenomenon and are driven by separate chemical processes.
    When we talk about how fast things take place during combustion, it's all meaningless unless we specify what we're talking about.

    Deflagration is the good kind of combustion for gasoline engines. It's the type that occurs when the gasoline's octane rating is adequate and fuel is being consumed normally. When all is good, it is the ONLY kind of combustion taking place. Its mode of action is thermal conductivity.
    In other words: The spark plug fires igniting a small kernel of a/f mixture right next to the spark plug. This combustive kernel of a/f mixture heats up the layer of a/f mixture immediately surrounding it. This layer then begins to combust. It then heats up the next layer until it begins burning and heats up the next layer....and so on and so on until the leading edge of the flame front reaches the edge of the combustion chamber and all the a/f mixture has been consumed. Deflagration can be though of as "burning" and is controlled and predictable.

    When folks are talking about the burn speed of a fuel, the above is generally what they are referring to; the speed at which the flame front spreads out from the spark plug on its way to the edge of the combustion chamber. In a lab this can be measured as a laminar flame speed, but inside a working engine, it is really the turbulent flame speed that is relevant. But the two generally correlate so it doesn't matter which we refer to. Turbulent flame speeds are many times faster than laminar since all that mixing action greatly increases the surface area of the leading edge of the flame front.

    The other kind of combustion--detonation--is the bad kind that we strive to avoid. It can be thought of as an "explosion" and there's little about it which is controlled or predictable (in a gasoline engine). It works through a wholly different mechanism. Detonation occurs when a/f mixture is subjected to such high heat and pressure that the gasoline molecules begin to break down because of free radical activity (a chemical process). The gasoline molecules affected by these free radicals actually become NEW chemicals that are soooooo unstable they are able to ignite all by themselves. They don't need a separate ignition source. In a nutshell, that is detonation and it has no direct correlation with laminar (or turbulent) flame speeds.

    Octane ratings are ONLY a measure of a gasoline's tendency to resist detonation. It has nothing to do with deflagration. Octane rating tells us NOTHING about the speed at which the flame front travels across the combustion chamber. AGAIN! Octane rating tells us nothing about flame speed. There are hydrocarbon fuels (gasoline is just a mixture of many hundreds of different hydrocarbon fuels) which burn at exactly the same speed yet have wildly different octane ratings. OK, one more time; octane rating does not correlate with burn speed.

    Octane rating tells us one very specific thing----> how resistant the gasoline is to the free radical activity that causes detonation. Actually, if all else was equal, a faster burning (deflagrating) fuel would have a HIGHER octane rating than a slower one. Why? Because the faster deflagration takes place, the less time the gasoline mixture around the edges of the combustion chamber has to get "beat up" by the free radicals which cause detonation. There's a race of sorts going on between the advancing flame front and the free radical activity. The goal is to get all the a/f mixture consumed through deflagration before detonation has a chance to occur.

    It's easy to imagine the plug firing and the a/f mixture going BANG in an instance. But it doesn't. Deflagration takes a certain amount of time to run its course. The more time it takes, the more time the mixture around the edges of the chamber has to endure the detonation causing conditions.

    Since any two real world gasolines never fit the "all else is equal" example, flame speed and octane rating have nothing to do with one another. You can have a fast burning fuel with a low octane rating and a slower burning fuel with a much higher octane rating. Or the reverse. It just depends on which specific chemical components make up the fuel. The things that make a fuel deflagrate fast or slow are not the same things that allow a fuel resistance to those free radicals. Remember, octane rating is only one of many specifications that distinguish one fuel from another. It is a huge mistake to pin all differences between gasolines on their octane ratings.

    So you see, when someone says high octane fuels burn slower what they really mean is high octane fuels are slower to succumb to the free radical activity responsible for detonation. But that's not the same thing as the burn speed they are likely talking about.

    There are some fine points of distinction here. But the devil is in the details.

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