BBF 528 pump gas build
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BBF 528 pump gas build

  1. #1
    Boss of the McIntyre Mob danhercules's Avatar
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    Default BBF 528 pump gas build

    Here is what my 21 TPR deck is got under my hatch built by High Flow Dynamics (Lakesonly)


    528 Ford Specifications


    -Bore: 4.42"

    -Stroke: 4.30"

    -Rotating Assy: SCAT cast crankshaft, H-beam rods, 36cc "D" shape dish Diamond pistons, -King bearings, balanced

    -Heads: Blue Thunder 74cc, ported, +.100" Ford Racing valves, 3-angle valve job, 10* locks & retainers, 1.625" dia. springs, 230 lbs seat

    -Compression ratio: 9.8:1

    -Rockers: Miller 7075-T7 aircraft aluminum, 1.7 ratio

    -Camshaft: Billet steel roller, custom ground for this engine combo. Lobe = 0.4550" / .4170", LSA = 109* [email protected]" = .266 / .278, Lift at valve = .757" / .709"

    -Roller Lifters: Morel

    -Block: D0VE-A with Boss 429 bulkheads, thermocleaned and mag checked, HFD Stage 1 oiling mods

    -Bearing clearances: mains = .0035"; rods = .0030"

    -Timing Chain: Ford Racing double-roller with billet gears and 9-position keyway

    -Carburetor: Holley 4500 Series Dominator, 1150 cfm

    -Distributor: MSD breakerless

    -Oil Pump: High Flow Dynamics Stage 1 prepped Melling M84DHV

    -Oil Pan: Armando's 10-qt jet boat pan and pickup

    -Intake: Edelbrock Victor 460 with Dominator carb flange, ported to Blue Thunder intake port size



    This engine was dynoed at Westech, which is the same facility where the recent Engine Masters Big Block Shootout had their engine finalists tested. Results were 737HP @ 6300 rpm and 672 lbs-ft of torque @ 4600 rpm, and 95% of peak torque was sustained all the way up to 5900 rpm. A torque curve that flat obviously extends well below the 4600 rpm mark.
    Last edited by danhercules; 01-10-2008 at 04:32 PM.

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  3. #2
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Hi Dan,

    I hope you have a nice off-season. I'm sure I'll see ya at Aha later this year.

    That's a nice "pump gas" build you have there good stuff. Can you post the entire dyno sheet or give us some more #'s from 4,000-6,500.?

    Have a great new year.

    Sleeper CP
    Big Inch Ford Lover

    "Dark Sarcasm"
    Going fast is only half the fun ... what you make go
    fast is the other half.
    " A Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have"

  4. #3
    Boss of the McIntyre Mob danhercules's Avatar
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    All my info is on my other computer. Its not hooked up. It rained in my office, kinda tore up for a bit. I will when I get back on line with my Mac.

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  6. #4
    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
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    You wouldn't have any actual flow data on those heads wouldya?
    I'm tinkering in Desktop Dyno (as usual) and having to improvise with a set on stage 3 porting I located full numbers for.
    I am within about 10HP, rpm is about right, but the torque curve is a bit low, and just kinda "peaky". I'm sure those are really too big compared to yours.

    It does look good and solid, flat from arround 5k to arround 6k.
    Trying to make an accurate comparison to your reality run for my own education.

  7. #5
    21' Daytona DaytonaTunnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinLowriderSS View Post
    You wouldn't have any actual flow data on those heads wouldya?
    I'm tinkering in Desktop Dyno (as usual) and having to improvise with a set on stage 3 porting I located full numbers for.
    I am within about 10HP, rpm is about right, but the torque curve is a bit low, and just kinda "peaky". I'm sure those are really too big compared to yours.

    It does look good and solid, flat from arround 5k to arround 6k.
    Trying to make an accurate comparison to your reality run for my own education.

    Are you looking for 74cc specs, or will specs off some 100cc's work for you ? I've got spec's on my 100cc's on excell speadsheet. If you want I can forward them to you.

  8. #6
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=SmokinLowriderSS;25372]You wouldn't have any actual flow data on those heads wouldya?

    Trying to make an accurate comparison to your reality run for my own education.[/QUOTE]

    Hey Smokin,

    If you go to www.460Ford.com you'll find an entire collection of Ford Head Flow number's. It's a stickly on one of the thread's. Very Good info and a great Ford site.

    Sleeper CP
    Big Inch Ford Lover

    "Dark Sarcasm"
    Going fast is only half the fun ... what you make go
    fast is the other half.
    " A Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have"

  9. #7
    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Cool

    Spec Sheets:





    In addition to the posted power chart, there is also an earlier pull where the oil was just changed from petroleum (engine break-in) to synthetic (pulls), and since it was the first high rpm pull, it was a lighter pull from just 4000-5500 rpm, and even down there the lowest torque number is 96% of the highest. So now we know that the torque band is diesel flat from at least 4000-6500...and based on this analysis, it's pretty safe to say that the flat torque extends well below the 4000 rpm mark.

    We could have quite easily gone another 1/2-point of compression and still been pump gas friendly and seen substantially greater HP (as well as other power enhancements that can increase power output). But this is a pleasure boat engine and if Danhercules finds himself miles up river needing fuel and only 89 octane is available, he can still get home without hurting the engine.

    We opted conservatively in other areas, too. For example, porting was not max effort because we were not shooting for the moon in HP numbers, but the cylinder head detailing effort was certainly there. Basically, intake bowls were blended, exhaust bowls were pocket ported and blended, and some unshrouding was done in the combustion chamber along with smoothening the machined transitions from combustion chamber-to-valve seats, etc. In other words, work was tended to where it was needed the most.

    Also, please note that these heads have the common 2.25"/1.76" valves and not 2.300" or 1.800" valves that the Blue Thunder heads can accomodate and that most step up to in order to get bigger numbers. Big valves just weren't necessary and would have been money unwisely spent for the targeted pump gas 700HP.
    What's noteworthy here is that the major components utilized in this build have the further potential to support much more power later on, should Herc wish to further enhance the engine.

    I went for a ride in Herc's boat yesterday at the Tom Papp Memorial, and I must say that this stroker combo pushes his big boat really well.

    LO
    High Flow Dynamics
    Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family


    This post © Copyright 2007-2017 Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

  10. #8
    Senior Member mwjsone's Avatar
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    Lake any hints for running a 460 in a Flattie?? V drive 460 with p20d heads and a velvet drive ?

  11. #9
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakesOnly View Post
    Spec Sheets:



    LO

    Lakes,

    Nice combo....

    From looking at the dyno sheet I was just wondering if you use the BMEP
    #'s for anything? What do you compair them to, if you do, and why? I never have, I don't even think I've run them. I guess I could do a manual calc if I have the correct info. ?

    Sleeper CP
    Big Inch Ford Lover

    "Dark Sarcasm"
    Going fast is only half the fun ... what you make go
    fast is the other half.
    " A Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have"

  12. #10
    cfm
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    Sleeper - I'm actually suprised you don't look at BMEP's. Type in 'BMEP' into your search engine and read away.

  13. #11
    cfm
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    Lakes, how does that DS compare to others that you've built and dyno'd elsewhere ?

    What was your guess on power before it hit the dyno ?

  14. #12
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfm View Post
    Sleeper - I'm actually suprised you don't look at BMEP's. Type in 'BMEP' into your search engine and read away.
    I know how to tune for A/F ratio, how to read BSFC. I guess BMEP is chaged by A/F ratio and timing changes so the higher the number the better I guess.

    I'll do some reading later about it.

    Sleeper CP

    "Dark Sarcasm"
    Going fast is only half the fun ... what you make go
    fast is the other half.
    " A Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have"

  15. #13
    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    Lakes,

    Nice combo....

    From looking at the dyno sheet I was just wondering if you use the BMEP
    #'s for anything? What do you compair them to, if you do, and why? I never have, I don't even think I've run them. I guess I could do a manual calc if I have the correct info. ?

    Sleeper CP
    Big Inch Ford Lover
    Sleeper,

    I was not in attendance during this particular day on the dyno but was stuck 350 miles away and fuming mad. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

    In regards to BMEP's, I'm not well versed in deciphering the readings and look for dyno operators that have a better understanding. I do look more at the BSFC's and these particular readings on Herc's 528 look to be where I would expect them to be considering the low compression ratio and out-of-the-box 1150 cfm carbonator. So I'm pleased with those numbers.

    If there were more time to try carb spacers and a few other things, I truly feel the engine would have passed the 750 hp mark, but I guuess that's neither here nor there now....but I know it's in there.

    LO
    High Flow Dynamics
    Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family


    This post © Copyright 2007-2017 Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

  16. #14
    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfm View Post
    Lakes, how does that DS compare to others that you've built and dyno'd elsewhere ?

    What was your guess on power before it hit the dyno ?
    cfm,

    Herc approached me asking for 700 hp on pump gas. I knew it was certainly possible with the parts combo, c/r, etc, but didn't want to be in as little as 3.5% error and accidentally hand him 675 hp. So I chose to discuss with Straub and, long story short, I suspect my provided flow numbers (for the cam grind) were estimated a little on the conservative side.

    In regards to dyno specs, yes of course we've seen better readings, those engines being higher performance in nature. But most of the HFD customers have wanted 500-600 hp engines. We don't bother to dyno those builds, nor does the customer typically care to pay extra for it. Based on experience, I'm confident that the engines we deliver usually are conservatively rated (just like Herc's turned out to be). After a few more upcoming builds most of which will be going to the dyno, we may simply offer "dyno proven" combos to the budget minded customers.

    LO
    Last edited by LakesOnly; 01-15-2008 at 08:02 PM.
    High Flow Dynamics
    Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family


    This post © Copyright 2007-2017 Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

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