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OD Locator Question

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    Senior Member 74Bonneville's Avatar
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    Default Spring Retainer Question

    In the 2 pics below you can see the play on the outer spring with my Spring retainer. It's close to a 1/16" of play. The inner spring is snug, feels like a good fit. Is there supposed to be play on the outer spring? Since I'm in this replacing the shims I'm thinking why not replace seals, spring retainer & locks. I have 1 seal with the small spring came off and is damaged, otherwise all seals look good, if I'm doing retainers I'm doing locks too. Also not sure these retainers are good to high rpm's, the shims were definitely wrong, not hardened.
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    Last edited by 74Bonneville; 06-10-2013 at 08:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 74Bonneville View Post
    In the 2 pics below you can see the play on the outer spring with my OD locator. It's close to a 1/16" of play. The inner spring is snug, feels like a good fit. Is there supposed to be play on the outer spring? Since I'm in this replacing the shims I'm thinking why not replace seals, OD locators & locks. I have 1 seal with the small spring came off and is damaged, otherwise all seals look good, if I'm doing locators I'm doing locks too. Also not sure these OD's are good to high rpm's, the shims were definitely wrong, not hardened.
    I see retainers, but no OD locators (also called cups). Are you sure you're using the right terminology? Are you talking about how the outer spring fits the step on the retainer?
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 06-09-2013 at 05:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    I believe he is using the wrong termination.
    You mean like a round lug instead of a spade lug?
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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    You mean like a round lug instead of a spade lug?


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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post


    TERMINOLOGY!

    Damn, didn't you ever take a class in eboinics
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post


    TERMINOLOGY!

    Damn, didn't you ever take a class in eboinics
    Good luck Bob and I think you will have a headache before this one is over! From what I see there are ALOT of mismatched parts in his valve train. No offense to the OP but to many things are going south! If I were him I would step back and pull the heads and study the valves,guides,retainers and the guide, seat and shim set-up! Then check push rod length for geometry! JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    Good luck Bob and I think you will have a headache before this one is over! From what I see there are ALOT of mismatched parts in his valve train. No offense to the OP but to many things are going south! If I were him I would step back and pull the heads and study the valves,guides,retainers and the guide, seat and shim set-up! Then check push rod length for geometry! JMO
    I don't know that he has so much a miss match of parts, as he has a badly set up set of heads. I checked the spring/retainer combo I ran on my last flat tappet cam(boy was that awhile back!!!!) and they were Isky 8005A springs and 347ST retainers. The retainer step is .030 smaller than the ID of the spring. My current roller springs and retainers are not much tighter at .025 difference on the outer spring.

    Quote Originally Posted by 74Bonneville View Post
    In the 2 pics below you can see the play on the outer spring with my OD locator. It's close to a 1/16" of play. The inner spring is snug, feels like a good fit. Is there supposed to be play on the outer spring? Since I'm in this replacing the shims I'm thinking why not replace seals, OD locators & locks. I have 1 seal with the small spring came off and is damaged, otherwise all seals look good, if I'm doing locators I'm doing locks too. Also not sure these OD's are good to high rpm's, the shims were definitely wrong, not hardened.
    Bonneville, take some advice here. There is more POSSIBLY wrong here than just the shims. Just the fact that you have the wrong shims is a warning alarm that the person that set your heads was clueless. Why did the seal get damaged. You are assuming that the spring somehow wiggled its why into the spring and caused the damage. Maybe. But it appears in the pics it was smacked from the top. If so, all the others, at least the intakes are "right there". If and when you get this thing up to the full RPM you are hoping for, your springs better be set right, at the right height, and there better be plenty of room between the retainer and the seal/guide, or what you are looking at now will look minor.
    do yourself a huge favor and pull the heads, and send them off to Grubbs. Check the valley for more material. Maybe even pull the engine and drop the pan while you wait for the heads to be set up.

    There is very little in my boat, and even less in the engine I don't handle myself. The heads are one if the few things I turst to very few. I allow 2 people to work on my heads, and one of them is responding to this thread. I DO NOT do my own head work, and I think I have a better understanding of what needs to be done, and have more of the tools to handle it than you do, and I still don't mess with them. The springs are the most highly stressed compontent in the engine and the least understood. Bar none. The clearances in the valve guides are the most critical and hardest to measure of any component in the engine, bar none. A mistake here can be disasterous. Dropping a valve can be one of the ugliest things that can happen in an engine.



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    No I didn't go to BBC Head school 101

    Valve spring retainers are what the picture shows, my bad

    How loose should they be?

    I was at Grubbs on Friday and will be there today to discuss

    The shims used were standard & not hardened, yes that was a mistake

    The shop I used is not a bunch of amateurs, I did my research beforehand. Yes a mistake was made with the shim style.

    I've been running this engine for 2 years. I look under my valve covers every couple of hours of run time. If a big mistake was made then we wouldn't be here now talking about this, damage would have happened far sooner.

    The shim coming apart took out the small spring on the valve seal, no other damage to seal or anywhere else. No the seal was not smacked from the top. The interesting thing about pictures and actually looking at the part in person is there is clarity when sitting here looking at it.

    I will be replacing spring retainers, locks & maybe seals depending on what Grubbs tells me. I will listen carefully and take all of his advice.

    As far as taking the engine apart, my educated decision is no. I have the engine out to replace my shaft so I did drop the pan. If there's one thing I hate more than anything else when working on my engine it's dropping the damn pan I'm sure it's just me. Not even a sparkle in the pan. Nothing at all. Very little on the drain plug magnet, very little, once I wiped in on a white towel I couldn't see it anymore.

    Look at the picture below. The pen is there to try and get a clear shot up close. My camera is grainy which can appear as damage, there is no sign of this being hit from above.
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