copper head gasket installation
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copper head gasket installation

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    Senior Member Bigblockbill's Avatar
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    Default copper head gasket installation

    What procedure do you use for copper head gaskets on an o-ringed block?

    - I am thinking hit both sides with scotch brite
    - Coat gasket with yamabond lightly on both sides
    - Install and torque

    Am I missing something? Is there something better to use than the yamabond?

    Thanks in advance,
    Bill
    24' Eliminator Fundeck

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    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
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    Use this stuff....
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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleekcrafter View Post
    Use this stuff....
    What he said...

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    First of all You say O-Ringed block, Do you have Receiver grooves in the head. If not you need to do That. So many machine shops only put an o-ring in the block and dont Match the heads to accept the o-ring, and what happens is the O-ring holds the head off the deck, which doesnt work any better than a Conventional Gasket. And actually will not seal Water at all. Now if that is done you need to Silicon Around all the water jackets top & bottom and you will have no Problems. You can use other methods, but they are hit & miss.
    Good luck Jay

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    Default Copper

    Quote Originally Posted by blownjet13 View Post
    First of all You say O-Ringed block, Do you have Receiver grooves in the head. If not you need to do That. So many machine shops only put an o-ring in the block and dont Match the heads to accept the o-ring, and what happens is the O-ring holds the head off the deck, which doesnt work any better than a Conventional Gasket. And actually will not seal Water at all. Now if that is done you need to Silicon Around all the water jackets top & bottom and you will have no Problems. You can use other methods, but they are hit & miss.
    Good luck Jay
    That is for sure......And don't forget to silicone the studs/bolts, or they too will seep water...I've tried copper 3 times on the PS motor, and ALL 3 times they leaked water into the engine.......I gave up and went to the Felpro blues and still sealed the water ports.........The o ring should not be a problem, they only stick up about .025/.030, and the copper gasket is plenty thick enough to allow that...I've used o ringed heads without a receiver groove in the block without any problems, and that was with the Felpro blues..........Ray
    LOUD BOATS SAVE LIVES

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    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blownjet13 View Post
    First of all You say O-Ringed block, Do you have Receiver grooves in the head. If not you need to do That. So many machine shops only put an o-ring in the block and dont Match the heads to accept the o-ring, and what happens is the O-ring holds the head off the deck, which doesnt work any better than a Conventional Gasket. And actually will not seal Water at all. Now if that is done you need to Silicon Around all the water jackets top & bottom and you will have no Problems. You can use other methods, but they are hit & miss.
    Good luck Jay
    This method works the best from my experience... 5 years on set of copper SCE gaskets without leaks. 13:1 compression and 300hp worth of fogger. Only thing I would add is... pre seat the gasket and wire by assembling and torque the head with the gasket dry first... then reassemble with silicone and torque. Seems to allow for a better set on the o-ring rather than trying to squeeze the silicone and the o-ring at the same time... but thats just what has worked for me... others may find doing it all at one shot to be better for them.

    I have heard the yamabond works well to... but never had luck with copper coat or hylamar... always find one little leaker somewhere.
    The Bostick®

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    Also keep in mind once you run the engine, dyno, race Etc. (Heat cycle)
    you need to retorque the head gaskets. and do not TQ. them hot. Engine must be cool.
    Jay

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    Have ran blown (centrifigal) deal to 14# with the block o-ringed and no reciever grove in the head with SCE copper gasket no problem. ARP head studs. Use a whole can of coppercoat spray on the two gaskets (about 4 coats, let dry between coats). A LITTLE silicone around the water ports. Ran 4 seasons, went through the motor and ran another two.

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    Senior Member Bigblockbill's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the response. It is true there is no reciever groove in the head, so I was hopping the gaskets will just compress enough to work. I will try the copper coat and silicone idea and keep my fingers crossed.
    24' Eliminator Fundeck

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    Rollin With Fink fasterthanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblockbill View Post
    Thanks for all the response. It is true there is no reciever groove in the head, so I was hopping the gaskets will just compress enough to work. I will try the copper coat and silicone idea and keep my fingers crossed.

    Or buy the SCE Titans.... No copper coat or silicone needed....

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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blownjet13 View Post
    First of all You say O-Ringed block, Do you have Receiver grooves in the head. If not you need to do That. So many machine shops only put an o-ring in the block and dont Match the heads to accept the o-ring, and what happens is the O-ring holds the head off the deck, which doesnt work any better than a Conventional Gasket. And actually will not seal Water at all. Now if that is done you need to Silicon Around all the water jackets top & bottom and you will have no Problems. You can use other methods, but they are hit & miss.
    Good luck Jay
    I've never heard of o-ringing the head to recieve the o-ring, that's something new to me. All the copper head gaskets installations I've seen (including ours), just o-ringed the block. The o-ring doesn't hold the head off the block, it sets into the copper. That's how it seals the combustion properly. We always siliconed around the water openings... should have mentioned that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David 519 View Post
    I've never heard of o-ringing the head to recieve the o-ring, that's something new to me. All the copper head gaskets installations I've seen (including ours), just o-ringed the block. The o-ring doesn't hold the head off the block, it sets into the copper. That's how it seals the combustion properly. We always siliconed around the water openings... should have mentioned that.
    The reason you never heard of it is because any Mom & Pop shop with a boring bar can put an O-ring in a block, but it takes a Sophistacated race shop to reciever groove the heads. So when you Push the .015-.020 O-ring into the Copper gasket where does .015-.020 worth of displaced copper gasket go? no where? Has to go some where, so it moves the gasket outwards in both directions until it reachs its full density load for the amount of torque applied. Then the remainder of the head which is not flat on the deck gets bent down around it, which will seal the combustion Chamber, somewhat, but no better than a good cometic or felpro gasket.
    And with very little Crush on the rest of the head (Water Jackets). So if you put in a reciever groove to accept that displaced copper, the head will set perfectly flat, and you will have a captured Fire ring (O-ring) that is bullet proof, and water jackets with no voids in them.

    Sorry about the Rambling Had to set the record straight.
    Jay

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    TRG
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    I thought that o-ring'n a block is old tech.? am i wrong in my thoughts???
    one more question?...
    Why could'nt you fill the o-ring with JB weald or something and seal up the area, then blade it during the cure time?
    Once its hard, does it have a chance to come out and cause issues? then you would'nt have any o-right issues, would you?
    Makes perfect sense to me?
    Very curious to any response, cuz i am having a little block pressure issue and wanna know if this could be a resolve?
    Thanks
    Todd

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    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddnjuzz View Post
    I thought that o-ring'n a block is old tech.? am i wrong in my thoughts???
    one more question?...
    Why could'nt you fill the o-ring with JB weald or something and seal up the area, then blade it during the cure time?
    Once its hard, does it have a chance to come out and cause issues? then you would'nt have any o-right issues, would you?
    Makes perfect sense to me?
    Very curious to any response, cuz i am having a little block pressure issue and wanna know if this could be a resolve?
    Thanks
    Todd
    I've seen people use copper wire to fill the o-ring and both filed and left sticking up to go back to regular type gaskets... even seen an old blown dealy-o have an o-ringed block with stainless wire and regular fel-pro gasket... but this was from back in the days before lockwire fel-pro's and way before cometic was the big deal... but old school and kinda sorta works isn't really the best way to go... unless that's what you got to work with.


    The hot deal is o-ring head and reciever groove head with wider .010 deep groove to "lock" the displaced copper... absloutly sure fire way to go... no "leaking" of combustion sometimes found with just o-ringing the block... yup that black shadow looking stuff. Kind of a bit of a pain to do... but haven't had a single failure... so I think the effort is justified.
    The Bostick®

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