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350 engine build

  1. #1
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    Default 350 engine build

    hi all. I know this isn't exactly a high performance engine . I am new to the boating world and after buying my first boat (and getting screwed) found that the engine has a hole in block. noth the end of the world, i have built a few engines for cars and trucks, but this will be my first boat build so i am looking for some guidance.
    I pulled my engine and found it is totally junk, only thing i can salvage is the intake and carb. it has a 5.7 with a one piece rear main seal i
    have an older small block 4 bolt main 2 piece rear main seal engine that i was saving for a 4x4 project. is this a good choice for a boat build? if you could help me out with how i should go about selecting parts such as cam,pistons, cylinder heads. i have a good selections of heads to use but not sure of which heads to use. also i hear talk about marine engines being "loose" like piston ring gaps.
    Engine is going in a 88 bayliner 21' capri cuddy cabin that weighs about 2800lbs. I don't want to set any records on the water i am just looking for reliability and reasonable on fuel (i know this goes against high performance). any help will greatly appreciated.

    scott

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by payton1803 View Post
    hi all. I know this isn't exactly a high performance engine . I am new to the boating world and after buying my first boat (and getting screwed) found that the engine has a hole in block. noth the end of the world, i have built a few engines for cars and trucks, but this will be my first boat build so i am looking for some guidance.
    I pulled my engine and found it is totally junk, only thing i can salvage is the intake and carb. it has a 5.7 with a one piece rear main seal i
    have an older small block 4 bolt main 2 piece rear main seal engine that i was saving for a 4x4 project. is this a good choice for a boat build? if you could help me out with how i should go about selecting parts such as cam,pistons, cylinder heads. i have a good selections of heads to use but not sure of which heads to use. also i hear talk about marine engines being "loose" like piston ring gaps.
    Engine is going in a 88 bayliner 21' capri cuddy cabin that weighs about 2800lbs. I don't want to set any records on the water i am just looking for reliability and reasonable on fuel (i know this goes against high performance). any help will greatly appreciated.

    scott
    Scott,, the reason a marine engine gets set up with different clearances than a street engine is temperature differential between the block and pistons. If it happens that you are running a closed system with a heat exchanger, then piston to wall clearance could be set like a street engine since the block temperature would be regulated by a thermostat, rather then just being constantly cooled by much cooler water. Bearing and ring gaps usually are set up "looser" than a street engine due to the type of duty they are required to perform,, many times double the RPM of the normal operation of a street motor.

    One suggestion,, try to use forged pistons if you can, they will take the abuse better.

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    New here Beer:30's Avatar
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    I would find a ONE PIECE rear main block, if you can. The whole setup will be less prone to oil leaks. Once a motor is in a boat, you can't just walk up and fix any ol' leak that comes along. The more you can PREVENT, the better you'll be. Do it ONCE and do it RIGHT.

    Leave the old two-piece for a car/truck project. No sense going backward.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    EFI is the wave of the future. There can be no denying it. Electronics have been on the leading edge of our entire lives. Not only os the magneto dead, but the standard issue CDI is wavering. Its all about total fuel, air AND spark control. Anybody that thinks its not has their head up their ass.


    2001 SleekCraft 30' Heritage SSB, open-bow mid-cuddy. 496HO / Bravo-I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer:30 View Post
    I would find a ONE PIECE rear main block, if you can. The whole setup will be less prone to oil leaks. Once a motor is in a boat, you can't just walk up and fix any ol' leak that comes along. The more you can PREVENT, the better you'll be. Do it ONCE and do it RIGHT.

    Leave the old two-piece for a car/truck project. No sense going backward.
    Or learn to put a 2 piece seal in so it doesn't leak, like millions of other people.
    GN7: "If you were to have ever had two brain cells you could rub together and make heat, you be dangerous"

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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    Scott,, the reason a marine engine gets set up with different clearances than a street engine is temperature differential between the block and pistons. If it happens that you are running a closed system with a heat exchanger, then piston to wall clearance could be set like a street engine since the block temperature would be regulated by a thermostat, rather then just being constantly cooled by much cooler water. Bearing and ring gaps usually are set up "looser" than a street engine due to the type of duty they are required to perform,, many times double the RPM of the normal operation of a street motor.

    One suggestion,, try to use forged pistons if you can, they will take the abuse better.
    thanks for the tip, forgot to mention that my boat is raw water cooled

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer:30 View Post
    I would find a ONE PIECE rear main block, if you can. The whole setup will be less prone to oil leaks. Once a motor is in a boat, you can't just walk up and fix any ol' leak that comes along. The more you can PREVENT, the better you'll be. Do it ONCE and do it RIGHT.

    Leave the old two-piece for a car/truck project. No sense going backward.
    one piece seal block i would use it, but i am trying to keep cost down as much as possible, bought this boat thinking it would only cost a little bit to get it in the water, but now thats not going to happen. never had much problems before with 2 piece rear mains leaking. trick is to offset the seal halves a little so they don't line up with the bearing cap joint
    scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by payton1803 View Post
    one piece seal block i would use it, but i am trying to keep cost down as much as possible, bought this boat thinking it would only cost a little bit to get it in the water, but now thats not going to happen. never had much problems before with 2 piece rear mains leaking. trick is to offset the seal halves a little so they don't line up with the bearing cap joint
    scott
    You're right about off-setting the two-pieces, but it will eventually leak. ANY seal will, for that matter. I know you are keeping costs down, but that was just my suggestion. The one-piece setup was not used/created just for fun. It's a problem-solver. Knowing how hard it is to get down into the bilge and work on a motor, I take any precaution to AVOID having to fix something later.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    EFI is the wave of the future. There can be no denying it. Electronics have been on the leading edge of our entire lives. Not only os the magneto dead, but the standard issue CDI is wavering. Its all about total fuel, air AND spark control. Anybody that thinks its not has their head up their ass.


    2001 SleekCraft 30' Heritage SSB, open-bow mid-cuddy. 496HO / Bravo-I.

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    steelcomp was here
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    Offsetting the seal ends is an old wives tale that has nothing to do with preventing rear main leaks.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer:30 View Post
    I would find a ONE PIECE rear main block, if you can. The whole setup will be less prone to oil leaks. Once a motor is in a boat, you can't just walk up and fix any ol' leak that comes along. The more you can PREVENT, the better you'll be. Do it ONCE and do it RIGHT.

    Leave the old two-piece for a car/truck project. No sense going backward.
    So you're saying that fixing a rear main leak in a car or truck is easier than in a boat, and that's why you should use a one piece in a boat, but not a truck or car??
    You say some crazy stuff sometimes.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbhsbz View Post
    Or learn to put a 2 piece seal in so it doesn't leak, like millions of other people.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by payton1803 View Post
    hi all. I know this isn't exactly a high performance engine . I am new to the boating world and after buying my first boat (and getting screwed) found that the engine has a hole in block. noth the end of the world, i have built a few engines for cars and trucks, but this will be my first boat build so i am looking for some guidance.
    I pulled my engine and found it is totally junk, only thing i can salvage is the intake and carb. it has a 5.7 with a one piece rear main seal i
    have an older small block 4 bolt main 2 piece rear main seal engine that i was saving for a 4x4 project. is this a good choice for a boat build? if you could help me out with how i should go about selecting parts such as cam,pistons, cylinder heads. i have a good selections of heads to use but not sure of which heads to use. also i hear talk about marine engines being "loose" like piston ring gaps.
    Engine is going in a 88 bayliner 21' capri cuddy cabin that weighs about 2800lbs. I don't want to set any records on the water i am just looking for reliability and reasonable on fuel (i know this goes against high performance). any help will greatly appreciated.

    scott
    Your four-bolt block will be more than adequate for your marine build. Don't give the two piece seal a second thought. Good parts selection and good quality machine work will be the key. As Obnoxious said, there are certain clearances that will require "marine" specs, like piston-to-bore, and valve guide clearances. Bearing clearances .003 mains, .0025 rods max. and you'll be fine. I'd invest in a decent oil pan and HV oil pump. Heads depends on what you want to do with the engine, what rpm you want to turn and how much power you want to make. If you're buying a complete rotating assembly you might as well build some more cubic inches and go with a 383ci stroker kit. Displacement is your friend in the marine world. You can buy complete forged rotating assemblies already balanced for very reasonable prices these days. For longevity and peace of mind I'd save some $ and go hyd. roller on the cam choice.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    So you're saying that fixing a rear main leak in a car or truck is easier than in a boat, and that's why you should use a one piece in a boat, but not a truck or car??
    You say some crazy stuff sometimes.
    Can you put a boat on a lift? Walk underneath with a trans jack an support, move the bell housing back - pull the pan off and replace a seal?
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    EFI is the wave of the future. There can be no denying it. Electronics have been on the leading edge of our entire lives. Not only os the magneto dead, but the standard issue CDI is wavering. Its all about total fuel, air AND spark control. Anybody that thinks its not has their head up their ass.


    2001 SleekCraft 30' Heritage SSB, open-bow mid-cuddy. 496HO / Bravo-I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer:30 View Post
    Can you put a boat on a lift? Walk underneath with a trans jack an support, move the bell housing back - pull the pan off and replace a seal?
    LOL...you make it sound like you're the only one who ever worked on a vehicle and everyone else is just an idiot.
    Sure...that's it...just slide the trans back. The drive shaft removes itself, the bell housing bolts just fall out on their own, the tq converter bolts too...and cross member, trans coolant lines, inspection cover, dip stick, electrical connections, linkage...they all just undo themself while you're sliding the trans jack under the trans. And we know EVERYONE has access to a lift and trans jack.
    And we won't even go into dropping the pan on an engine sitting over a across member....


    The premise that a one piece seal is less prone to leaking than a properly installed two-piece was what was stupid about your comment, but you certainly added to that.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 06-22-2013 at 09:52 AM.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer:30 View Post
    Can you put a boat on a lift? Walk underneath with a trans jack an support, move the bell housing back - pull the pan off and replace a seal?
    WTF!!
    I have changed rope seals in engine while in cars and NEVER once moved the trans, EVER!
    Hard to believe you have the knowledge how to fill your tank at the gas station. Or do you have your wife do it???

    Like Steel said, what do you do about the cross member that runs under 99% of the pan in a car??
    Makes me doubt you have EVER changed a seal in your life, or even installed one.

    Odd that virtually all the aftermarket Hi Po blocks are 2 pc seal, ALL the aftermarket alum blocks, along with the vast majority of the cranks. I guess they should have consulted you before making that huge investment in tooling.

    A 2 pc seal is no more prone to leak than a one pc if you know how to install one. Some people just shouldn't even touch one!



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