TR air/fuel ratio problem's
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TR air/fuel ratio problem's

  1. #1
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    Default TR air/fuel ratio problem's

    I have a Edelbrock Victor TR with dual Holley 850's. The 850's that I have their internals match. They are old carbs with a Johnson type linkage on them. The Johnson linkage uses a cam to open the secondaries, the secondaries probably start opening around 1/3 throttle (about). The primary side of the carbs are on the right side of the engine, the secondaries are on the left side of the engine. On the trailer... The left header gets bright cherry red hot and the right side looks normal. Is it possible the left side is that much leaner than the right side due to carb design/choice? I did a plug check and the plugs look gray (all plugs), like a gun metal gray color, the 3 people here believe the engine is running lean. Occasional/seldom flames are seen popping out the left header. I am at a loss, don't know what to do/what's wrong. I tried spraying soapy water and then WD-40 all over the carbs, the TR (top and bottom), and I never heard a RPM change. The vacuum gauge shows roughly (crappy gauge) 5 -7 inches at about 1200 RPM. I can't figure out what's wrong or what my next step is. Jets are 87's on all 8 corners, no power valves...

    Thanks.

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  3. #2
    ptz
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    Question

    are the carbs sideways ? or inline ?

    are they swap meet finds ?
    check all the air bleeds for uniform size.
    ( if not... check these out..
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...278862231&rd=1)
    next idle feed restrictions.

    what size feed / return lines ?
    could be a fuel volume issues.
    Last edited by ptz; 08-09-2008 at 08:45 PM.

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    Carbs are sideways mounted, 87 jets at all 8 corners, 30cc front acc. pumps, 50cc rear acc. pumps, 31 squirters, no power valves, gaskets are blue/reuseable, acc. pumps are alcohol compatible. I rebuilt the carbs myself and I spent almost a week soaking, cleaning, re-soaking, etc... blew out the passages with 165 psi compressed air every time. I'm not perfect but I believe the carbs are as clean as new. Feed lines are 3/8, fuel pump is Holley Blue with fuel pressure reg. set at 7 psi (holds 7 psi at any RPM). No filters on the Holley inlets, but there is a filter in the line before the pump.

    Thanks

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    Cantard 71hallett's Avatar
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    Did you try messin with the timing?
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    It would be a balmy 85* in Steel's shop if he would move a little faster

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    Quote Originally Posted by 71hallett View Post
    Did you try messin with the timing?
    I'm having timing issue's also.

    http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=15758

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    Cantard 71hallett's Avatar
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    Sounds like it is back to far is all.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    It would be a balmy 85* in Steel's shop if he would move a little faster

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    When I set up my tr the front 2 cylinderrs are 90 then go down 1 size on each 2 cyl to the back. front were lean and the back was dark.I even took epoxy and made ribs between each runner to stop and fuel running.Can you flip the carbs were the primary is on the leftside?Just to see if its the carbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 71hallett View Post
    Sounds like it is back to far is all.
    Back too far... does that mean too retarded on the advance? Because I had it at 38 total and it shoots flames near consistantly out the left header, so I retarded it a little bit down to 34 total. The header also got a lot hotter a lot quicker when the timing was at 38 total. The freakin left header gets just bright cherry glowing red hot as all hell! It makes me very nervous!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMI View Post
    When I set up my tr the front 2 cylinderrs are 90 then go down 1 size on each 2 cyl to the back. front were lean and the back was dark.I even took epoxy and made ribs between each runner to stop and fuel running.Can you flip the carbs were the primary is on the leftside?Just to see if its the carbs.
    I hadn't thought of turning the carbs around the other way to see what happens. I would have to change quite a bit to do that, I think.

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    Cantard 71hallett's Avatar
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    Maybe try what VAMI said even if you have to rubber hose it or something. In my mind I still say timing or spark. Gray is usualy somewere along those lines. Flames are unburnt fuel getting lit in the pipes. Nothin crazy like a bad plug or somethin? If you switch the carbs atleast you could rule that out or blame them.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    It would be a balmy 85* in Steel's shop if he would move a little faster

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod56cars View Post
    Back too far... does that mean too retarded on the advance? Because I had it at 38 total and it shoots flames near consistantly out the left header, so I retarded it a little bit down to 34 total. The header also got a lot hotter a lot quicker when the timing was at 38 total. The freakin left header gets just bright cherry glowing red hot as all hell! It makes me very nervous!
    Hallett is right on the timing and the fact that the carbs are side mounts makes it even worse. You are living in the idle curcuit on the trailer. Get the boat in the water and then find out what it does. As far as the timing goes retard runs fat and advance runs lean but doing this on a trailer is not doing you, your;e boat or your'e brain a bit of good. Also reading plugs of the trailer is a waste of time. W.O.T. shut down asap then read. thats the only way you can be sure of the A/F mixture in relation to the motor. Also on a side note, if you are getting that motor hot enough to glow a set of headers do you see a problem there???? M

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    I know more guys who chased their tails thinking because their headers were glowing, they were lean. Honestly, it's a common mistake...glowing headers more often mean there's raw fuel (too rich) burning in the header than a lean condition. Timing too far retarded will add to the problem.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    Hallett is right on the timing and the fact that the carbs are side mounts makes it even worse. You are living in the idle curcuit on the trailer. Get the boat in the water and then find out what it does. As far as the timing goes retard runs fat and advance runs lean but doing this on a trailer is not doing you, your;e boat or your'e brain a bit of good. Also reading plugs of the trailer is a waste of time. W.O.T. shut down asap then read. thats the only way you can be sure of the A/F mixture in relation to the motor. Also on a side note, if you are getting that motor hot enough to glow a set of headers do you see a problem there???? M
    Glowing headers and engine temp have little to do with eachother. Retarded timing puts the combustion that much closer to the ex valve opening, creating much higher ex temps. With a rich condition and late timing together, there can be unburnt fuel when the ex valve starts to open, which will continue burning in the ex port and out the pipe.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 08-09-2008 at 09:48 PM.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    I want to put it on the water tomorrow, but that bright red left header scared me. It makes me think I'm going to melt a piston or valve or... but if it's running rich that won't happen (right?).

    The timing, I'm thinking I might put on a single point locked out stock distributor and see what happens.

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