Pin Buttons
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Pin Buttons

  1. #1
    Senior Member MACHINEHEAD1's Avatar
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    Default Pin Buttons

    Good for endurance apps?

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    Senior Member VAMI's Avatar
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    I ve only seen them used on engines that constantly get tore down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    NO


    That about sums it up, IMHO anyway!!

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    Senior Member MACHINEHEAD1's Avatar
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    Not just a regular no, but a big red no. Why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINEHEAD1 View Post
    Not just a regular no, but a big red no. Why not?
    i could be wrong (always am lol) but, i think it has to do with the heat & friction of the piston in the cyl for long periods of time like ur use

    FastRat

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    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINEHEAD1 View Post
    Good for endurance apps?
    In agreement or trying to play nice with opinions. I will be the first to agree that on a regular tear down motor be it between rounds or after a race weekend. Personally I have never seen a button fail or score a cyclider wall. On another opinion if a wrist pin fails which would you rather have fail a pin button or a retainer? If either fails you have more problems than a pin button or clip! If there is so many proplems going on in the reciprocating mass to pound out a pin clip or button the day has just begun. IMLAO M

  10. #8
    Senior Member MACHINEHEAD1's Avatar
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    Have used them mostly in custom pistons when I have to order them and I remember to check the pin button box. All the off the shelf stuff comes with spiro locks, wich I dont mind either. Even have some pin buttons in street engines. The buttons I use are made of aluminum and have no hole in them. Bore to button clearence is about .020". I was curious about the endurance part, and the reason for not using them in these apps.

  11. #9
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINEHEAD1 View Post
    Have used them mostly in custom pistons when I have to order them and I remember to check the pin button box. All the off the shelf stuff comes with spiro locks, wich I dont mind either. Even have some pin buttons in street engines. The buttons I use are made of aluminum and have no hole in them. Bore to button clearence is about .020". I was curious about the endurance part, and the reason for not using them in these apps.
    That button rattling around in that piston...not going to be much left of it after long in an endurance applicartion. That is going to lead to metal particles moving through your engine. The plastic buttons too. Nylon, Teflon, Delrin, all are heavier than a single round wire lock, too.
    IMO it's just being lazy. (no offense meant) I'm pretty sure the idea became popular in drag racing where guys were going through pistons and/or rods between rounds. Made the swap a lot quicker and easier. They really have no other benefit.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
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    northern member Canuc's Avatar
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    agree with ol guy on this one . have made them out of alum. bronze for putting floating rods on the older style street forgings that didn't have grooves . way easier to make than grooving the pistons for locks most of the new pistons now have a lot narrower pin in them , so the " button " would have to be a lot longer . don't know why they would be a problem

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    Senior Member wagspe208's Avatar
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    How many cup engines (nextel) do you think use pin buttons? I am sure everyone knows the answer. They are endurance. How many drag engines use them? Less and less every day..except fuel, BA, HIGH MAINTENANCE stuff.
    Great in the right application. Our boat stuff is not the right application.
    If spirolocks torture one so much, take them to a professional engine builder..not an assembler, magazine reader, etc. They can be installed in about 10 minutes for a set of 32, should be able to remove them in a little more time.
    They are a pain in the ass if you don't do them often. If you do them frequently, they are almost as easy as the old true arc stuff (close).
    Wags

  14. #12
    gn7
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    think about this, the end play with spiral/Tru Arcs is about .003-.005 max. To get numbers like that with buttons, they would have to be available in a slew of size's for each bore size+clearance. It would be like ordering rings to the exact size you need so you didn't have to file them. So instead they make them with .020+ clearance and let the pin rattle like hell, FOR A SHORT PERIOD. Think that pin doesn't become a battering ram with clearances like that? Only put one spiral in, on "one" side next time you build a motor and see how long it takes to POUND it out. On top of that they are heavy as hell



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    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    think about this, the end play with spiral/Tru Arcs is about .003-.005 max. To get numbers like that with buttons, they would have to be available in a slew of size's for each bore size+clearance. It would be like ordering rings to the exact size you need so you didn't have to file them. So instead they make them with .020+ clearance and let the pin rattle like hell, FOR A SHORT PERIOD. Think that pin doesn't become a battering ram with clearances like that? Only put one spiral in, on "one" side next time you build a motor and see how long it takes to POUND it out. On top of that they are heavy as hell
    Just one qwick question. Why would anybody with a properly built motor worry about "pounding a pin out" The word floating means just that. Yes in properly built motor centrifical force and geometrics will make a pin move but you tell me what will make one want to "pound out" ???????? M

  16. #14
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    Just one qwick question. Why would anybody with a properly built motor worry about "pounding a pin out" The word floating means just that. Yes in properly built motor centrifical force and geometrics will make a pin move but you tell me what will make one want to "pound out" ???????? M
    Floating means not pressed in the rod, it dosen't mean floating from side to side. Look up "resonant harmonics".
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
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