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    Default manifold info

    I picked up an Edelbrock x-c96 manifold with some other parts and would like to know if it would make a descent boat piece. The look is really special and thought it would look good on my old sanger flatty project. What's the verdict on performance, rpm range, carb selection and engine size. I know the old Z-28 crossrams were a fairly high rpm piece but I don't think I've ever seen the big block version in person, 'til now. TIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5sangers View Post
    I picked up an Edelbrock x-c96 manifold with some other parts and would like to know if it would make a descent boat piece. The look is really special and thought it would look good on my old sanger flatty project. What's the verdict on performance, rpm range, carb selection and engine size. I know the old Z-28 crossrams were a fairly high rpm piece but I don't think I've ever seen the big block version in person, 'til now. TIA
    I would probably put it on for the cool factor if the rest of the boat is being put together "retro". If they were the hot tip for performance you would probably still see them being made.

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    Everything I've read on the small block crossram was that it was kind of a bent t-ram to get hood clearance for Trans-am, is this the same idea? Would it work better on a smaller or larger engine as I'm still gathering for this project and can go either way to make at least a passable runner to get the look?

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    Found this in a google image search



    Cant help you out with your questions though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5sangers View Post
    Everything I've read on the small block crossram was that it was kind of a bent t-ram to get hood clearance for Trans-am, is this the same idea? Would it work better on a smaller or larger engine as I'm still gathering for this project and can go either way to make at least a passable runner to get the look?
    Its nothing like a T ram. A T ram feds all the cylinders using both carbs. A cross ram only feeds half the engine with one carb.
    The carbs on a t ram see 8 equally spaced pulses in 2 revolutions, the carbs on a cross ram see 4 pulses like a 4 cylinder, except on a V8 they aren't equal distance. Because the carbs aren't "pressure balanced" to each other, the depression in the plenum is kind of herky jerky. Plus there is a pretty severe turn under the carbs to get to the ports.
    They look much cooler than they work. Great for a period correct flat bottom or nostalgia street rod type of thing.

    The Z28 manifold was a completely different animal that did more closely mimick a T ram. The carbs do feed a common plenum under the carbs that all 8 cylinders draw from, and the depression is much smoother under each carb,
    The Z 28 manifold will whoop ass on the Edelbrock cross ram. Unfortunately, I don't know of anybody that ever made a Z type manifold for a BBC. Edelbrock did cast up a similar manifold for Chrysler for the Hemi called a Rat Roaster.
    Don't compare either of these to a Edelbrock cross ram. They have nothing in common except the carburetor placement.

    Optional Z28 cross ram manifold




    Chrysler/Edelbrock Rat Roaster





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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Its nothing like a T ram. A T ram feds all the cylinders using both carbs. A cross ram only feeds half the engine with one carb.
    The carbs on a t ram see 8 equally spaced pulses in 2 revolutions, the carbs on a cross ram see 4 pulses like a 4 cylinder, except on a V8 they aren't equal distance. Because the carbs aren't "pressure balanced" to each other, the depression in the plenum is kind of herky jerky. Plus there is a pretty severe turn under the carbs to get to the ports.
    They look much cooler than they work. Great for a period correct flat bottom or nostalgia street rod type of thing.

    The Z28 manifold was a completely different animal that did more closely mimick a T ram. The carbs do feed a common plenum under the carbs that all 8 cylinders draw from, and the depression is much smoother under each carb,
    The Z 28 manifold will whoop ass on the Edelbrock cross ram. Unfortunately, I don't know of anybody that ever made a Z type manifold for a BBC. Edelbrock did cast up a similar manifold for Chrysler for the Hemi called a Rat Roaster.
    Don't compare either of these to a Edelbrock cross ram. They have nothing in common except the carburetor placement.

    Optional Z28 cross ram manifold




    Chrysler/Edelbrock Rat Roaster

    That would
    be a great manifold for an engine that ran somewhere in the atmosphere but not in the real world. Pretty cool to look at but a tuning nightmare otherwise! My opinion!

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    I have run Weiand with 2 q-jets and 2 afb's on top of a 70 z28 motor and an Offy with a single q-jet, 780 z28 carb and a 650 spread bore with a turbo 350/stock converter in a 3000lb Willys sta.wag with 4.11.
    Compared to stock z28/780 they were all soggy on the bottom end...the 2 afb's idled really well, all were cold blooded as hell even in ca. winter. They drove sorta ok but weren't really happy until past 4k. I had a muncie w/2.54 low gear and the Offy for a while, that combo ran a little better than stock z28 up to about 6500 and more better to 7200.

    I have no idea how it would run in a boat...the more ci the better.....cam choice will make or break the deal. If you are doing the nostalgia thing a couple 450's and off road z28 cam with the last 3 of 140 and a 383 with decent heads should run as well as a t/r deal. It isn't the hot tip for fast but it makes up for it with 'cool guy'.
    Mouser had a complete motor for sale a while back..x-ram and everything...think it even came out of a boat.
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    Pretty much figured the design was a pig otherwise everyone would have copied. I haven't put the pieces in place for the engine yet so I can go any direction on cubes, rpm range, carbs etc to put crutch on a bad design. Nothing I'm doing is max performance, just don't want it to look good and be a total turd. I have a variety of hulls if I could put together a package that would work better in one style or another, hydro, true flat , gullwing. Appreciate the input building my fantasies, just retired so now I can actually work on this stuff instead of filling the garage with parts.

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    As has been reported the C-396 is not a very good design in intake manifolds compared to current design. Same thing with some of the early Mopar cross rams. However one can be modified to operate more acceptably. I had a local customer that had picked one up that he wanted to use on a nostalgia street rod. I split a piece of tubing then cut holes into each carb port section down in the sunken center and welded the tube in place for a crossover. After the intake was polished and had the carbs mounted, the tube was basically not noticed, to the unknowing eye it looked like part of the original manifold. This helped the idle and cruise characteristics of the manifold a recognizable amount.

    There is one company that now offers the old style Mopar cross ram with the cross tube cast in it. I ran the small block version, X-c8, in my '68 Camaro many moons ago. I really thought it was cool back then! Then there were the 4 two barrel and 8 one barrel intakes.....
    Last edited by Gearhead; 07-28-2013 at 12:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    As has been reported the C-396 is not a very good design in intake manifolds compared to current design. Same thing with some of the early Mopar cross rams. However one can be modified to operate more acceptably. I had a local customer that had picked one up that he wanted to use on a nostalgia street rod. I split a piece of tubing then cut holes into each carb port section down in the sunken center and welded the tube in place for a crossover. After the intake was polished and had the carbs mounted, the tube was basically not noticed, to the unknowing eye it looked like part of the original manifold. This helped the idle and cruise characteristics of the manifold a recognizable amount.

    There is one company that now offers the old style Mopar cross ram with the cross tube cast in it. I ran the small block version, X-c8, in my '68 Camaro many moons ago. I really thought it was cool back then! Then there were the 4 two barrel and 8 one barrel intakes.....
    Yeah the lack of balance between the carbs/cylinders is the downfall of the cross ram. I guess top RPM HP was the major driving force with the idea. Even though it never really lived up to that all that well either.

    Its funny that the original idea of a ram LOG had balance tubes between the banks. Even Crowers original U Fab had balance tubes between the banks. Its not as though they weren't aware of the concept. But somewhere along the line they all decided to switch gears and isolate the banks.







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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Yeah the lack of balance between the carbs/cylinders is the downfall of the cross ram. I guess top RPM HP was the major driving force with the idea. Even though it never really lived up to that all that well either.

    Its funny that the original idea of a ram LOG had balance tubes between the banks. Even Crowers original U Fab had balance tubes between the banks. Its not as though they weren't aware of the concept. But somewhere along the line they all decided to switch gears and isolate the banks.



    I would not mind having one of those just for fun!

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