509 Twin Turbo...anything I am missing here?
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509 Twin Turbo...anything I am missing here?

  1. #1
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    Default 509 Twin Turbo...anything I am missing here?

    Hopefully pulling my 468 twin turbo this weekend-ish. I pulled it last season to find the bottom end in rough shape...stretched rod bolts, loose caps, and some bearings on the wrong side of good. Other than some low oil pressure though, the engine ran fine and never made any noise. I thought I dodged a bullet and my uncle put a new set of bearings in as well as some ARP rod bolts...he also put a nice set of crower rollers on it

    Well...it looks like the crank may have not escaped damage all together and I got a pretty bad rod knock. I started looking at doing a 496 rotating assembly...the crank and rods in my 468 are cast, so I figured it was a good time to put something more turbo worthy in there. By the time all the work is done on the block though, I would be within striking distance of a 509 short block...which I figure is going to be better.

    So here is what I am looking at after some recommendations from a recommended machine shop:

    What I have:
    The turbos: Air Research T04 .60's (I think these may be too small...they are the gale banks turbos with the hole drilled through the housing...they made about 12lbs on the 468, I have a couple larger set of turbos to choose from)

    Intercooler: PFM

    Heads:Aluminum GM Bowtie rectangular port heads # 14044861. 380 CC runners, 106 CC open chambers, angle milled .125. I used cometic head gaskets...051.

    Intake Manifold:Team G single plane

    Cam: Lunati 114 degree

    advertised intake duration: 296
    advertised exhaust duration: 306
    @.050
    id: 238
    ed: 248

    Rockers: Crower Rollers

    Ignition: HEI with ACCEL cap

    Boost Timing Control Unit: Mallory 610-08

    gas: 92octane

    Carb: Draw through Holly 850, air horn machined off, boost referenced: 90 on the secondaries and 80 on the primaries

    Fuel Pump: Holley version of the Clay Smith with 1/2 in/out

    Regulator: Volumax regulator

    I am looking to get: Short block 509 (or maybe a 515?)

    Dart Big M sportsman block
    Callies
    Compstar crank
    Callies Compstar I Beam rods
    JE Flat top pistons
    Total Seal rings
    H Series bearings

    Any thoughts/ advice?

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  3. #2
    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    The 509 could some day be a 540 very easlly the other is done at 496. Plus the 509 has a better oiling system and is a better overall engine.
    If For Some Reason I Do Something Worthy Of Recognition. God Provided The Ability And Deserves The Credit.


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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible_buddhist View Post
    Hopefully pulling my 468 twin turbo this weekend-ish. I pulled it last season to find the bottom end in rough shape...stretched rod bolts, loose caps, and some bearings on the wrong side of good. Other than some low oil pressure though, the engine ran fine and never made any noise. I thought I dodged a bullet and my uncle put a new set of bearings in as well as some ARP rod bolts...he also put a nice set of crower rollers on it

    Well...it looks like the crank may have not escaped damage all together and I got a pretty bad rod knock. I started looking at doing a 496 rotating assembly...the crank and rods in my 468 are cast, so I figured it was a good time to put something more turbo worthy in there. By the time all the work is done on the block though, I would be within striking distance of a 509 short block...which I figure is going to be better.

    So here is what I am looking at after some recommendations from a recommended machine shop:

    What I have:
    The turbos: Air Research T04 .60's (I think these may be too small...they are the gale banks turbos with the hole drilled through the housing...they made about 12lbs on the 468, I have a couple larger set of turbos to choose from)

    Intercooler: PFM

    Heads:Aluminum GM Bowtie rectangular port heads # 14044861. 380 CC runners, 106 CC open chambers, angle milled .125. I used cometic head gaskets...051.

    Intake Manifold:Team G single plane

    Cam: Lunati 114 degree

    advertised intake duration: 296
    advertised exhaust duration: 306
    @.050
    id: 238
    ed: 248

    Rockers: Crower Rollers

    Ignition: HEI with ACCEL cap

    Boost Timing Control Unit: Mallory 610-08

    gas: 92octane

    Carb: Draw through Holly 850, air horn machined off, boost referenced: 90 on the secondaries and 80 on the primaries

    Fuel Pump: Holley version of the Clay Smith with 1/2 in/out

    Regulator: Volumax regulator

    I am looking to get: Short block 509 (or maybe a 515?)

    Dart Big M sportsman block
    Callies
    Compstar crank
    Callies Compstar I Beam rods
    JE Flat top pistons
    Total Seal rings
    H Series bearings

    Any thoughts/ advice?
    Going to a Lunati Pro series or a Callies Magnum on a postitve pressure build I think for longevity is a good idea. That way if you ever want to lean on it you got the piece that will take it.
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

    3HP is an A$$ Whooping!!! JW

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    Senior Member SHAWN DAVIS's Avatar
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    I would thinkg a little larger carb would help on that application
    I picked up some hp going from a 850 to a 1050 on a 350" twin turbo, but it was at 26 lbs boost

  7. #5
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    Going to a Lunati Pro series or a Callies Magnum on a postitve pressure build I think for longevity is a good idea. That way if you ever want to lean on it you got the piece that will take it.
    Also, going to the Callies Ultra H beam is not much more expensive but a far better rod than the Compstar I beam.
    Dart prices are going up after the first of the year so if you're looking to buy a block, you might consider getting it before then.
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    I will look into those rods...the Magnum crank though takes the bottom end to a new price level...I am trying to stay around the $5500 mark.

    509 vs 515 with those heads?

    I am not trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of this thing...80% of this engines life will be spent pulling skiers at 3-4k...but on the occasion I want to



    I want to know I won't be at the bottom of the lake with a large window in my block

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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible_buddhist View Post
    I will look into those rods...the Magnum crank though takes the bottom end to a new price level...I am trying to stay around the $5500 mark.

    509 vs 515 with those heads?

    I am not trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of this thing...80% of this engines life will be spent pulling skiers at 3-4k...but on the occasion I want to



    I want to know I won't be at the bottom of the lake with a large window in my block
    The Dragonslayer isn't a bad option but honestly I think you could beat pretty hard on a Compstar.
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    gn7
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    Careful with the turbos you use. Not all turbos will work in a draw thru setup, and will suck oil out of the turbos.
    If you do go with larger turbos, the 850 wil be too small as Shawn said.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Careful with the turbos you use. Not all turbos will work in a draw thru setup, and will suck oil out of the turbos.
    If you do go with larger turbos, the 850 wil be too small as Shawn said.
    The 850 carb was borderline on a Banks or Race Arrow 454 at 15 lbs. boost, had to be perfect to survive. I have had a couple of meltdowns in the distant past. A big throttle body EFI or port injection EFI would be tits!
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveo143 View Post
    The 850 carb was borderline on a Banks or Race Arrow 454 at 15 lbs. boost, had to be perfect to survive. I have had a couple of meltdowns in the distant past. A big throttle body EFI or port injection EFI would be tits!
    Of course it would and as I already have an electromotive computer and distributorless ignition...it might be some day. I have all the parts for a dual carb setup...including the dual carbs that probably need a rebuild. I will grab the turbo numbers I have and see what you guys think...but I imagine those T04s are too small? 12-15lbs is all i am looking to make. I made 12lbs on the 468 and 90% of the time, it was more than enough....always had good o2 #s on it too...except the one time I leaned it, but that was because the regulator was too small and I emtpied the bowls. I also really want to keep it on pump gas.

    Perhaps you guys can school me though...on a draw thru, I always thought the carb was more or less self limiting as you can only suck so much air through the carb

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    The Dragonslayer isn't a bad option but honestly I think you could beat pretty hard on a Compstar.
    This is kind of what I have been reading. Callies seems to think pretty highly of the crank and rods...as my uncle always says too...if its gonna go, its gonna go. My cousin just had a short block built dragon slayer, manley rods, diamond pistons, etc...seems the block wasn't quite cleaned enough...spun a bearing...bad shit happened. Didn't even make the first service interval

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveo143 View Post
    The 850 carb was borderline on a Banks or Race Arrow 454 at 15 lbs. boost, had to be perfect to survive. I have had a couple of meltdowns in the distant past. A big throttle body EFI or port injection EFI would be tits!
    I agree, but if you are going to go with carbs, I would rather go with 2 progressive linkaged 650s or even 2 with standard linkage over a dom. But that's just me. I am old school But that would take one well worked out dominator.

    There is always 2 AFBs This thing kicked roots blown hemi butt up and down the tracks on the west west coast in the 60s. 331 SBC and it would carry the front wheels for 30 ft off the line.

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    Here are the turbos I have...

    Option 1: what I have:


    Option 2:



    Option 3, the big guns:



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    any more thoughts?

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