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ring land height

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    Default ring land height

    what is recommend first ring land height for a high compression endurance application
    how far from piston crown to first ring land

    im working with a small bore and want to un shroud the valves as much as I can with out going too deep into the bore that I affect the first compression ring

    I know the ring will move from manufacturer to manufacturer

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowtiebro View Post
    what is recommend first ring land height for a high compression endurance application
    how far from piston crown to first ring land

    im working with a small bore and want to un shroud the valves as much as I can with out going too deep into the bore that I affect the first compression ring

    I know the ring will move from manufacturer to manufacturer
    Piston notch has little to do with shrouding, and then only at low lift before the port is really active. The notch is dictated by the cam timing events more than anything. You notched to what the cam needs, and if possible, no more. You don't notch deeper with idea that it will flow better.



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    Bob whats your opinion about dropping the pistons in the hole, with that you decrease the depth of the cut into the piston for the valve, which makes that small piece of material out against the piston wall thicker. Every piston Ive ever burnt has been in that small area and burns thru to the top ring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspeeddemon View Post
    Bob whats your opinion about dropping the pistons in the hole, with that you decrease the depth of the cut into the piston for the valve, which makes that small piece of material out against the piston wall thicker. Every piston Ive ever burnt has been in that small area and burns thru to the top ring.
    Yeah it does. I always knock that little piece out of there with a roto lock sanding disk in a die grinder. Also, if its a 396, I don't see the point of going to a valve larger than 2.19. I'd rather have the quench of the piston being .040 from the head that push the piston down the hole. The area is prone, but at the same time I have only burnt one piston there, and it was in detonation due to water flow. The area get a good blast of incoming fuel charge to keep the heat under control. But if you detonate it even a little, that's the place that will pay the price.
    I have run pistons with a 1.27 pin height and a high ring, with a blower, and not hurt that area.
    If your building a 454, Icon puts the top ring further down than any off the shelf piston. They don't move the ring pack up because of pin height. Their 1.395 CH pistons have a oil ring support rail because the ring pack is that low, No other company uses a oil support for a 1.395 piston, they raise and tighten up the ring pack.



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    Last edited by gn7; 10-21-2013 at 04:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    , Icon puts the top ring further down than any off the shelf piston. They don't move the ring pack up because of pin height. Their 1.395 CH pistons have a oil ring support rail because the ring pack is that low, No other company uses a oil support for a 1.395 piston, they raise and tighten up the ring pack.
    Do they have 2618 pistons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspeeddemon View Post
    Do they have 2618 pistons?
    All Icons are 2618, and use a shorter thicker pin that is about the same weight, but stout. Bang for the buck its one of the nicest budget sportsmen pistons out there. IMO, if you are going to spend more money, then you just move up to CP Bullet line, which are also all 2618



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    All Icons are 2618, and use a shorter thicker pin that is about the same weight, but stout. Bang for the buck its one of the nicest budget sportsmen pistons out there. IMO, if you are going to spend more money, then you just move up to CP Bullet line, which are also all 2618
    I may need the CP Bullet, shooting for high boost levels, Who do recommend as a distributor for these Bob?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspeeddemon View Post
    I may need the CP Bullet, shooting for high boost levels, Who do recommend as a distributor for these Bob?
    Depending in the boost, you may need CPs. Not sure of suitability of the Bullet line under high boost.

    Drop Piston Maker a PM. He works works at CP.



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    I might have worded my question wrong
    im talking about blending the deck down into the cylinder bore, the 396 has notches in it for the valve on the intake side of the cylinder, im not talking about notching the piston for valve relief

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowtiebro View Post
    I might have worded my question wrong
    im talking about blending the deck down into the cylinder bore, the 396 has notches in it for the valve on the intake side of the cylinder, im not talking about notching the piston for valve relief
    I just take the factory notch and try to give it a little radius as opposed the hard edge notch the factory did. But I try not to go any deeper into the bore than necessary.
    If you are using a stock pin 396 height piston like a Speed Pro, the top ring is quite a ways down the pistons. You can get away with a little more down the hole, but I wouldn't go much.



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    I just measured and its about .170 from the deck to the bottom of the notch ill blend it no deeper than that

    thanks

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    You might follow this guys lead He did the same thing on his big block, looked really nice, he details his procedure for you! http://www.performanceboats.com/dyno...old-hondo.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowtiebro View Post
    what is recommend first ring land height for a high compression endurance application
    how far from piston crown to first ring land

    im working with a small bore and want to un shroud the valves as much as I can with out going too deep into the bore that I affect the first compression ring

    I know the ring will move from manufacturer to manufacturer
    Sorry for the late reply, I haven't been on here for a while (and thanks for the support GN7).

    First ring land height is not the question, thickness between the ring Grove and intake pocket is the question. Also, not sure what "high compression" is...that is a relative term.

    NASCAR pistons have the top ring down from the deck .070" to .100" and intake pocket can be as deep as .400". The reason it's feasible is because the radial dimension (width) of top ring is around .095" thick. The thickness between ring groove and wall of intake pocket can be as little as .020", but these are fine tuned engines, top ring groove is usually anodized and moving the ring down would not help, as it's up against a sheer wall anyway.

    I would recommend talking to your piston manufacturer and telling them what you need to do. They can model it in 3D software and answer all your questions....I HOPE!

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