Copper head gasket ?
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Copper head gasket ?

  1. #1
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    Default Copper head gasket ?

    Education needed on copper head gaskets. I have a 468 Bullit roller motor in a Mantra Performer. Eagle crank/rods. J/E pistons. Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads. Being a lake boat will be its only purpose. This is my first engine to own with copper head gaskets. Don`t know much of its history except that an idiot with more money than brains previously owned it. He didn`t run a dipstick so i`m pulling the oil pan to check the bearings etc. The dipstick hole is plugged with silicone. I can see on a tab sticking into the lifter valley that says 4.370 and .040 . Heres my questions; does running a copper gasket automaticly mean that it would have to been o`ringed? Dependable without water getting into the oil? I don`t know whether to go ahead and try it or not. I can see where a small amount of orange silicone has squished out all around the head. I believe the block has already been decked by looking at the right front of block where the number should be. How deep are o`ring grooves usually cut? If only the heads are ringed maybe i could have them shaved. I`m thinking i`d be safer with fel-pro 1017 gaskets. Or would i? Thanks in advance for any info.
    Last edited by Richard Till; 11-23-2013 at 08:18 AM.

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    Default 1017 Felpros

    Until you know "if", and "where" the heads/block are "O ringed" you can't make a gasket decision... The Felpro "bore" seal isn't round and quite often doesn't conform to o rings that may be...(Unless the ring grooves were cut on a CNC type mill they will be cut round).... I will say, "If it aint broke, don't fix it"....
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    Im with ray.if you have to change them go with titans ics if blocked isnt oringed, they have a nice firering setup and sealing around the coolant passages.can be bought 120 a pair from good vibrations.coppercoat em good and lay em on.most copper hgaskets have a round chamber so measure widest points of head chamber prior to ordering the correct bore gaskets.

    richard whats a mantra performer look like? Is that what my hull is called? 16ft mantra tunnel

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    Tom, a Mantra Performer is a winger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lildave View Post
    Tom, a Mantra Performer is a winger
    Oh ok thanx dave.i wet sanded SBT off under he mantra on the transom, thot thats what they were called maybe? I know richard like the lil tunnels so thot maybe he bought one.im gna just tell everyone its a Short Badass Tunnel lol

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    I`ve still got the Texas Tunnels. The performer is shaped like the TX-19 but narrower and probably not near as safe. It was built by Greg High from a Mantra mold in 93. Bought it over a year ago and haven`t been to the lake in it yet. I robbed two 1050`s and a Comp belt drive off it for the tunnel hull. It was supposed to be Eagle crank & rods with J/E pistons. The crank is there but the rods are steel I beams with 7/16 bolts. No J/E pistons either. The cam is 311/315 276/284 731/731 . The pistons have a black coating on the skirts and i can see an image on their side on BDC but not enough to read. Here goes another set of questions; What brand piston is black like that? Are the copper gaskets reusable? Do they torque the same as a Fel-pro type? Help.

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    Ditch the copper gaskets and run Cometics or Felpros, don't worry about the o-ring grooves. I've had several engines that ran with no o-ring wire. One with Cometics and the others with Felpro composite. On one 467 (12.5:1, 820hp), the fire ring had crossed over the o-ring groove. NO problem, no leak, no loss of compression. When I took the gasket off and looked at it, it had printed nicely into the groove and there was a little sign of combustion in the groove but big deal. If the groove is sealed, it (combustion pressure) can't go anywhere. I know some guys intentionally ran grooves in the block with no wire to help hold the gasket in place. Gave the gasket something to bite into.
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    Copper gaskets come in different thickness.If the block has been decked.The pistons may have been to high in the hole .So they may used a thicker gasket.Something to think about.

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    I thank all of you gentlemen very much for the info. The gaskets will go to the scrap copper pile and 1017`s it will be. Knowing that a possible o-ring won`t cause a problem has paved my path. Thats the shove that i needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bville View Post
    Copper gaskets come in different thickness. If the block has been decked. The pistons may have been to high in the hole .So they may used a thicker gasket. Something to think about.
    The current copper gasket is marked as a 4.370 bore/.040 thick gasket. A .039/.040 Felpro should be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Till View Post
    I thank all of you gentlemen very much for the info. The gaskets will go to the scrap copper pile and 1017`s it will be. Knowing that a possible o-ring won`t cause a problem has paved my path. Thats the shove that i needed.
    Like Steel said, Felpro and Cometics are used on O ringed blocks without O rings all the time with no issues. Copper gaskets even with O rings on a N/A or mild boosted is insane. Its a throw back to the days of layered asbestos and steel gaskets. I'd hate to tell you how hard I abused Felpro performance head gaskets before moving to Cometics, and still do not use O ring copper.

    By the way, the heads were not happy with those 4.370 bore gaskets. They would be even less happy with Felpro 1037 and have a potential sealing problem with the fire ring in the chamber. Use the 1017.



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    How much larger, than the engine bore, can the gasket bore be before is causes a problem ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VD Cruiser View Post
    How much larger, than the engine bore, can the gasket bore be before is causes a problem ?
    The gasket being larger than the bore does not cause a problem other than an un-necessary loss of compression and a small area where un-burnt gas can be trapped. It's really of no consequence.
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