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blown alky question

  1. #1
    '74 Sanger ski hydro the General's Avatar
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    Default blown alky question

    I have a freshly built 540 with a new Dart block with splayed caps, used Eagle forged rotating assembly, SRP shelf pistons, file fit rings, Dart 320 heads angle milled down to 110cc chambers, comes out around 11:1, full roller valvetrain

    Obviously an ideal blown alky build would utilize a GOOD blower crank with dbl keys, aluminum rods, pistons may have different ring lands?, different rings?, bigger heads etc. etc.

    My question is this. Would I be making a mistake by putting an 8 or 10-71 blower with a bird catcher on alcohol on this long block with a mild tune of around 1000-1100hp keeping the rpms under 8k? I would like to eventually move up to the good blower crank, aluminum rods etc, but in the meantime, is this a feasible thing to do without destroying my block?

    Feel free to pm me your thoughts and opinions if you want

    thanks, Todd
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  3. #2
    '74 Sanger ski hydro the General's Avatar
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    More pertinent information about the current 540

    Ring gap at .030
    rotating assembly is balanced
    King bearings
    Heads #4cyl flow intake @ .300 lift - 222
    @ .700 lift - 354

    Exhaust @ .300 lift - 147
    @ .700 lift - 254

    Application is v-drive hydro
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    Urban Cougar Trapper Gopher711's Avatar
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    I was told by dealer that Eagle cranks were good to about 1000 hp , Callie's Compstar to about 1200hp if that's true info then you are pushing it ???
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  6. #4
    gn7
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    A 4032 piston wouldn't be my choice for an engine making that kind of power.
    Even if the piston lives, the pin won't. If you tear it down to change the pin, the heavier pin will be enough to require a rebalance, and you might as well change the piston.

    HP ratings for crankshafts are near meaningless. 1000 HP on a N/A, Blown, turbo, or NOS are not all the same.



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    Last edited by gn7; 12-28-2013 at 12:48 PM.

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    Senior Member steveo143's Avatar
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    The SRP pistons are the weakest link in a Blown deal IMHO.
    steveo143 AKA DiMarco 21 II



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  8. #6
    '74 Sanger ski hydro the General's Avatar
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    I believe the once advertised rating for the rotating assembly was 1500hp. I think I'll just run the 540 in it's current configuration and just start collecting the parts to build the blown alky correctly the first time. That being said, the Dart 320's are probably on the small side for a blown alky 540, correct?
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  9. #7
    gn7
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    The heads are fine.
    Your biggest issue is the 4032 pistons and light pins. If the bearings came with the rotating assembly, they probably aren't King XP bearings.

    You need to get over the "so called" HP ratings. They're a JOKE! They are only as good as the weakest link.



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    Last edited by gn7; 12-28-2013 at 01:49 PM.

  10. #8
    '74 Sanger ski hydro the General's Avatar
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    I totally agree with you about the hp ratings. I was just clarifying that I believe that the crank and rods were made back before Eagle went Chinese. Irregardless, I agree with you GN7.
    Last edited by the General; 12-28-2013 at 05:45 PM.
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  11. #9
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    Brendan Murry at Performance Motorsports has provided this information. Anybody, who uses any part of this information or just reads it should go and visit his web site. If you want to buy parts and pieces for a motor of this type, consider buying from him. This kind of information to this detail is very hard if not impossible to find let alone share. His web site is www.racecarparts.com for those who can't wait. I would recommend waiting and reading this article through a couple of times before deciding on a racing direction. -- Jim Burke

    There are many ways to skin a cat; this is how we do it at Performance Motorsports:

    Block:
    Start with a tall deck Chevrolet 4 bolt-main truck block. This block has the following advantages:
    Truck block has thicker cylinder walls
    Almost always comes with a steel crankshaft Block is fairly inexpensive The first two items come in handy for this project.

    Block Machine work:
    Deck the block and bore it to .030 over size to make sure the bores are straight. Finish hone it to a smooth finish with 320 grit and plateau brush the bores this makes for a very even, clean bore.

    Next o-ring the block and install the o-ring wire.

    Wash everything with plenty of hot water and soap. When thoroughly dry, install Milodon main studs, and oil restrictors. We use the Donovan gear drive front cover (RCD makes a very fine piece too, very similar in design in all billet aluminum.

    Crankshaft:
    The crankshaft is sent to the crankshaft shop, to be turned .010/.010 under sized on the main and rod journals. We usually run our motors on the loose side, .004 rod and main clearance.

    This is a good time to cut the crankshaft for two keyways on the snout to better hold the blower pulley. While it is at the crankshaft shop be sure to have it checked for straightness.

    Have all the oil holes chamfered and the crankshaft polished.

    Installing the Crankshaft:
    We install the crankshaft seal (the gray one) and use our special mixture of 50 weight Kendall and assembly lube on the bearing surfaces of the CHILDS and ALBERT bearings. Carefully lay the crankshaft in place after installing the crankshaft gear.

    You can check the clearance with plastic gauge, this should be done dry before final assembly (plastic gauge is an easy way to check clearances and very easy to use even at the track).

    Torque the mains to 110 Lbs. and back off 3 times, this will pre-stress the hardware.

    Next, install the camshaft and the camshaft thrust plate.

    Install one ARIAS 11.1 piston and rings combo and a .500 long Brooks aluminum rod in #1 cylinder. (Long rods makes less stress on the cylinder wall ------less stress =longer life).

    We will find TDC and install a RCD crank hub, mark top dead center and proceed to degree the camshaft.

    Camshaft:
    We usually run 2-4 degrees advance with a 701/320/114 Howard's cam and Crower roller lifters.

    701/320/114 Cam means:
    701 = Valve lift
    320 = duration
    114 = lobe centers

    Connecting Rods & Pistons:
    Install the other 7 piston-rod combos with the ring end clearance set. The rule is looser is better than tighter. We add .005 to whatever the manufacturer recommends.

    Torque the rod bolts to 75# loosen and re-torque three separate times, this will help in the long run. Check the rod clearance for .030-050 side clearance.

    Button up the cam cover and the fuel pump drive extension.

    Oil system:
    Install the TITAN sportsman oil pump and shaft and install the MILODON 8 quart dragster style oil pan. We run KENDALL 50-weight oil and with the TITAN sportsman oil pump we run with 85 lbs. of oil pressure.

    Cylinder Heads & Valve Train:
    Install Milodon head studs hand tight in the block. As for cylinder heads, there are many ways to go. I prefer the Chevrolet iron 990 casting. We do a little port matching and bowl blending with our Standard Abrasives porting kit.

    We use the iron heads because:

    We are shooting for 1000-1200 horsepower They are readily available They flow well The iron is especially durable and holds heat well They run $200-$450.00 and since you don't run water sometimes finding a crack can be a bargaining tool.

    We install Milodon stainless exhaust valves and intake valves and add .002 to your valve guide clearance. Install K-Motion kr1000 valve springs and titanium retainers and keepers set. Use 235-lb. spring pressure @1.950- and a good 3-angle valve job.

    We bolt on the heads and torque to 80 lb. with a SCE .060 head gaskets. 060 gives you a softer hit and something to tune with at altitude where you can change this to .043 gaskets for more compression.

    We install Crower push rods and rockers. Norris stainless rockers are very durable, but are a little heavy. Next, install your favorite brand of stud girdle. Mine is the Moroso's I've had since 83'. We use the B&B valve covers or the Billet Fabrication valve covers. I install the quick release breather 1" tube to a puke tank.

    Blower & Fuel system:
    For an intake manifold I prefer the Littlefield tall deck manifold and a 6-71 Littlefield alcohol Teflon lined blower turning 25% over drive. We use an Enderle bug catcher and the Nitro barrel valve at .009 (69 % Leak on the barrel valve).

    An Enderle 110 pump and a high speed set at 65 lbs. with an 85 jet. Use a 140 -170 main jet and 52 jet for the injectors.

    Ignition:
    We use the Mallory Super Mag III with Mallory wires and NGK #9 spark plugs.

    Overview:
    This combo is a proven setup, not real fancy with trick of the week gizmos, but a reliable setup with which we have won six world championships. You can update or change this recipe to suit your tastes, but it should give you a baseline with a minimum of headaches.

    Brendan Murry
    www.racecarparts.com
    Your Online Supermarket of Race Car Parts
    1520 Minnesota Avenue
    San Jose, CA 95125
    408-266-3324
    87 Kustom Kraft open bow cruiser jet
    84 Eliminator Daytona jet
    74 Sanger ski hydro v-drive

  12. #10
    Senior Member
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    Jun 2010
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the General View Post
    Brendan Murry at Performance Motorsports has provided this information. Anybody, who uses any part of this information or just reads it should go and visit his web site. If you want to buy parts and pieces for a motor of this type, consider buying from him. This kind of information to this detail is very hard if not impossible to find let alone share. His web site is www.racecarparts.com for those who can't wait. I would recommend waiting and reading this article through a couple of times before deciding on a racing direction. -- Jim Burke

    There are many ways to skin a cat; this is how we do it at Performance Motorsports:

    Block:
    Start with a tall deck Chevrolet 4 bolt-main truck block. This block has the following advantages:
    Truck block has thicker cylinder walls
    Almost always comes with a steel crankshaft Block is fairly inexpensive The first two items come in handy for this project.

    Block Machine work:
    Deck the block and bore it to .030 over size to make sure the bores are straight. Finish hone it to a smooth finish with 320 grit and plateau brush the bores this makes for a very even, clean bore.

    Next o-ring the block and install the o-ring wire.

    Wash everything with plenty of hot water and soap. When thoroughly dry, install Milodon main studs, and oil restrictors. We use the Donovan gear drive front cover (RCD makes a very fine piece too, very similar in design in all billet aluminum.

    Crankshaft:
    The crankshaft is sent to the crankshaft shop, to be turned .010/.010 under sized on the main and rod journals. We usually run our motors on the loose side, .004 rod and main clearance.

    This is a good time to cut the crankshaft for two keyways on the snout to better hold the blower pulley. While it is at the crankshaft shop be sure to have it checked for straightness.

    Have all the oil holes chamfered and the crankshaft polished.

    Installing the Crankshaft:
    We install the crankshaft seal (the gray one) and use our special mixture of 50 weight Kendall and assembly lube on the bearing surfaces of the CHILDS and ALBERT bearings. Carefully lay the crankshaft in place after installing the crankshaft gear.

    You can check the clearance with plastic gauge, this should be done dry before final assembly (plastic gauge is an easy way to check clearances and very easy to use even at the track).

    Torque the mains to 110 Lbs. and back off 3 times, this will pre-stress the hardware.

    Next, install the camshaft and the camshaft thrust plate.

    Install one ARIAS 11.1 piston and rings combo and a .500 long Brooks aluminum rod in #1 cylinder. (Long rods makes less stress on the cylinder wall ------less stress =longer life).

    We will find TDC and install a RCD crank hub, mark top dead center and proceed to degree the camshaft.

    Camshaft:
    We usually run 2-4 degrees advance with a 701/320/114 Howard's cam and Crower roller lifters.

    701/320/114 Cam means:
    701 = Valve lift
    320 = duration
    114 = lobe centers

    Connecting Rods & Pistons:
    Install the other 7 piston-rod combos with the ring end clearance set. The rule is looser is better than tighter. We add .005 to whatever the manufacturer recommends.

    Torque the rod bolts to 75# loosen and re-torque three separate times, this will help in the long run. Check the rod clearance for .030-050 side clearance.

    Button up the cam cover and the fuel pump drive extension.

    Oil system:
    Install the TITAN sportsman oil pump and shaft and install the MILODON 8 quart dragster style oil pan. We run KENDALL 50-weight oil and with the TITAN sportsman oil pump we run with 85 lbs. of oil pressure.

    Cylinder Heads & Valve Train:
    Install Milodon head studs hand tight in the block. As for cylinder heads, there are many ways to go. I prefer the Chevrolet iron 990 casting. We do a little port matching and bowl blending with our Standard Abrasives porting kit.

    We use the iron heads because:

    We are shooting for 1000-1200 horsepower They are readily available They flow well The iron is especially durable and holds heat well They run $200-$450.00 and since you don't run water sometimes finding a crack can be a bargaining tool.

    We install Milodon stainless exhaust valves and intake valves and add .002 to your valve guide clearance. Install K-Motion kr1000 valve springs and titanium retainers and keepers set. Use 235-lb. spring pressure @1.950- and a good 3-angle valve job.

    We bolt on the heads and torque to 80 lb. with a SCE .060 head gaskets. 060 gives you a softer hit and something to tune with at altitude where you can change this to .043 gaskets for more compression.

    We install Crower push rods and rockers. Norris stainless rockers are very durable, but are a little heavy. Next, install your favorite brand of stud girdle. Mine is the Moroso's I've had since 83'. We use the B&B valve covers or the Billet Fabrication valve covers. I install the quick release breather 1" tube to a puke tank.

    Blower & Fuel system:
    For an intake manifold I prefer the Littlefield tall deck manifold and a 6-71 Littlefield alcohol Teflon lined blower turning 25% over drive. We use an Enderle bug catcher and the Nitro barrel valve at .009 (69 % Leak on the barrel valve).

    An Enderle 110 pump and a high speed set at 65 lbs. with an 85 jet. Use a 140 -170 main jet and 52 jet for the injectors.

    Ignition:
    We use the Mallory Super Mag III with Mallory wires and NGK #9 spark plugs.

    Overview:
    This combo is a proven setup, not real fancy with trick of the week gizmos, but a reliable setup with which we have won six world championships. You can update or change this recipe to suit your tastes, but it should give you a baseline with a minimum of headaches.

    Brendan Murry
    www.racecarparts.com
    Your Online Supermarket of Race Car Parts
    1520 Minnesota Avenue
    San Jose, CA 95125
    408-266-3324
    obviously you have made a decision let us know how it works on the water

  13. #11
    '74 Sanger ski hydro the General's Avatar
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    I was just looking for opinions on that build
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  14. #12
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    That build is what he wants to sell doesn't name a crankshaft I'd go with a callies im ok with the pistons but I don't think you need 11to1 and I doubt youll be spinning a blower 25%over -and thats jmo

  15. #13
    Senior Member wizbang's Avatar
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    " An Enderle 110 pump and a high speed set at 65 lbs. with an 85 jet. Use a 140 -170 main jet and 52 jet for the injectors. "

    WTF is this ?

    a 13.0 GPM pump, then add a .085 H/S, then try and use a .140-.170 main ?????????

    Talk about circulating fuel !!!!!!

  16. #14
    Gone
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    "There are many ways to skin a cat."

    Many better ways and Brendon knows it.

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