Machine shop
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Machine shop

  1. #1
    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Default Machine shop

    Has any of you Vegas folks, heard of John Keller and J&S machine shop, or John Keller racing engines?
    I visited their shop today, to look at a crank, and check out their shop to possibly do work on my block. They look like a respectable shop, just have never heard of them before.

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

    18' Advantage http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-...k-project.html

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  3. #2
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    I have not heard of them or seen any of their work. I am not suggesting that you post any negative comments here, just food for thought. Since you have had an opportunity to check out their shop, my only suggestions would be:

    1. Do they take care of their measuring tools? Are they put away in a safe place or are they just placed wherever on a bench that is piled with stuff or worse yet, sitting on the machines where they can be damaged by FOD (Foreign Object Debris) or dropped? If they can’t take care of their own measuring tools, how can you expect them to take care of your job?

    2. What is the condition of their machines? Are they well cared for or are they run down and abused? Old machines does not mean bad, in fact, older machines are in many cases better than newer machines (if well cared for) because the older machines are made heavier and are a lot more rigid than some of the newer machines.

    3. Do they take care of their cutting tools? Are the tools organized and safely put away or are they abused and thrown into a drawer or onto a workbench? Cutting tools that are just lying about will bump into each other and chip and dull, affecting finish.

    4. What was your overall impression of the shop? Was it dirty or well kept? A working shop will have chips, but the mess should be well managed. All chips and grinding dust should be kept far away from the assembly area and grinding dust should be kept far away from well oiled machines.

    5. Do they look like they take pride in their work? Does everybody get the same quality of workmanship or does the quality that is put into YOUR job depend on how much you spend, if your car/boat will be in a magazine, who you are, etc.?

    My intent is not to bash anybody, but to mention some of the things that I look for when approaching a shop for the first time. It is good to do research on a shop first. Remember, it is your money and your mental well-being that is at stake.

    Good luck with your project.

    Happy New Year,

    Joe
    "I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

  4. #3
    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Their shop appeared to be very organized and sanitary.
    They have a front showcase area, for display and racing parts sales, a seperate closed off machining area and a seperate room where they build engines, with nice organized assymbly benches. They do not do the engine building near the same area as the machineing operation takes place.
    I did not notice tools just scattered about.
    I am really only intrested in their machining abillity.

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

    18' Advantage http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-...k-project.html

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  6. #4
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    It is good to hear your positive comments about that shop.

    Respectfully, “machining ability” starts with learning how to measure properly; continues with caring for precision tooling; and ends in a quality finished product with proper fit, form, and function.

    In an ISO/AS9100 (International Organization for Standardizations/Aerospace) environment, all measuring tools used for inspection purposes are required to be certified once (minimum) within a year. Some shops that I have worked in take it upon themselves to send all tools out ever quarter for certification because of the tight tolerances they work with. Documentation on all tools needs to be maintained. Some customers even require recording of the serial number of the tool used to measure the feature in the inspection report.

    I know that automotive shops are not held to that standard, however it would be nice to know that they at least check their tools for accuracy.

    I had a Mopar crankshaft worked by Lunati. When I received that crankshaft, every journal was exactly .010 under nominal size to the tenth (.0001). I could not measure any variation anywhere on that crankshaft. Again, I purchased a Crower BBC crankshaft and when I inspected it, it was dead center in the middle of the tolerance to the tenth per the Chevy Power book. I purchased a new SBC crankshaft from a local (highly recommended) shop. When I received it, it had damage on some of the mains. That highly recommended shop then sent my crank out to another highly reputable crank grinder. When I received the crank, the mains were .0135 to .0155 under the minimum diameter specified in the Chevy Power book. The mains also had .001 of taper over the width of the bearing surface. I took it all back to him and said, again, “It aint right!” I was then told, “You measured it wrong.” I asked him to measure it with HIS tools to show me my error, but he would NOT. Since I had to carry my now worthless junk out of the back of his shop, I now understand why. Once I got behind the beautiful storefront facade, what I saw was a workbench with heads and intakes piled on it, and buried in that pile was a couple micrometers and a Sunnen dial bore gage. That Sunnen dial bore gage cost at least $600, how could somebody be so careless to just throw it on the bench piled with junk. If he can’t take care of his own tools, how can he do quality work? This was reflected in the quality of work that I received. The funny thing is, a sign hanging in the storefront read, “Long after price is forgotten, quality remains!”

    Ultimately, it is your money and your project, and I want you to be happy and successful. I would also like to know about quality shops and quality workmanship. I hope that that shop turns out to be such a shop. Good luck with your project.

    Cheers,

    Joe
    "I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

  7. #5
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    Ask for customer references!

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