arp 2000 rod bolt torque
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 14 of 26

Thread:
arp 2000 rod bolt torque

  1. #1
    Senior Member jdekruyf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Artesia, CA
    Posts
    688

    Default arp 2000 rod bolt torque

    Anyone have any idea why the rod bolts would be torqued to 95lbs? Thought I had spun a bearing so while checking them I first checked the build sheet from Clay Smith which said 95lbs with oil and checked it with the torque wrench and they were tight at 95. Eagle rods says to torque em at 75. Should I follow the build sheet or invest in new bolts due to stretch and follow eagle rods specs? They are arp 2000's with the 7/16 head and 7/16 thread.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    gn7
    gn7 is offline
    Senior Member gn7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    25,975

    Default

    Eagle's/ARP recommendation is based on using EP3/Moly/ARP Ultra Lube of similar lube. Oil will tend to raise the torque required to hit desired stretch.
    95lbs seems excessive and more than I have ever torqued a 2000 bolt.

    Measuring the breakaway torque when disassembling is next to useless.



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

  4. #3
    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake Elsinore Ca
    Posts
    3,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Eagle's/ARP recommendation is based on using EP3/Moly/ARP Ultra Lube of similar lube. Oil will tend to raise the torque required to hit desired stretch.
    95lbs seems excessive and more than I have ever torqued a 2000 bolt.

    Measuring the breakaway torque when disassembling is next to useless.
    VERY much agreed! stick to specs and I don't care what bolt or stud nut combo you use! As Bob said break away reading means dick. If you want to get a good reading go to another rod and check torque used. then when you find they are above spec, replace all stud-nut combo and re-torque to spec and enjoy! Or do what I would do and check the whole mas for crush factor. My 2 cents.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    It's what we do BDMarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    El Monte
    Posts
    723

    Default

    There are no nuts on those rod bolts.

    I agree it seems excessive. You can check by measuring the OAL of each bolt using a pin mic in the dimples at each end of the rod bolt. Keep them in order as you remove them. Then measure and compare the OAL. If the stretch was within specs, they should be fine. Make sure you measure stretch when you reassemble. As Bob said, stretch and torque vary greatly with different lubricants.
    http://www.performanceboats.com//signaturepics/sigpic837_1.gif
    B & D Marine Performance
    El Monte, Ca.

  7. #5
    gn7
    gn7 is offline
    Senior Member gn7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    25,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BDMarine View Post
    There are no nuts on those rod bolts.

    I agree it seems excessive. You can check by measuring the OAL of each bolt using a pin mic in the dimples at each end of the rod bolt. Keep them in order as you remove them. Then measure and compare the OAL. If the stretch was within specs, they should be fine. Make sure you measure stretch when you reassemble. As Bob said, stretch and torque vary greatly with different lubricants.
    If he hasn't already pulled them all. If he has even a couple rods untouched, he could still get a stretched measurement and compare it to a the free length.
    He could use a standard bolt stretch gauge if he measures the stretched length and the free length on bolt at a time.



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

  8. #6
    Senior Member jdekruyf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Artesia, CA
    Posts
    688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BDMarine View Post
    There are no nuts on those rod bolts.

    I agree it seems excessive. You can check by measuring the OAL of each bolt using a pin mic in the dimples at each end of the rod bolt. Keep them in order as you remove them. Then measure and compare the OAL. If the stretch was within specs, they should be fine. Make sure you measure stretch when you reassemble. As Bob said, stretch and torque vary greatly with different lubricants.
    If he hasn't already pulled them all. If he has even a couple rods untouched, he could still get a stretched measurement and compare it to a the free length.
    He could use a standard bolt stretch gauge if he measures the stretched length and the free length on bolt at a time.
    Yup. Already pulled them all unfortunately. What would you guys do in this case? Safe side and get new bolts?

    Old guy - what do you mean by going to another rod and checking its torque? Wouldn't that be the same as the breakaway torque? Because that's exactly what I did was go in 5 lb increments starting at 75 and worked up to 95 with the wrench set to tighten. Or do I have the breakaway torque definition backwards?

  9. #7
    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake Elsinore Ca
    Posts
    3,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdekruyf View Post
    Yup. Already pulled them all unfortunately. What would you guys do in this case? Safe side and get new bolts?

    Old guy - what do you mean by going to another rod and checking its torque? Wouldn't that be the same as the breakaway torque? Because that's exactly what I did was go in 5 lb increments starting at 75 and worked up to 95 with the wrench set to tighten. Or do I have the breakaway torque definition backwards?
    Break-away is what it takes to loosen the bolt. If you stepped up to 95 to get any response from the bolt on a tighten up then I would say it was over torqued OR a thread locker was used? I did not assemble or was there at the time so I can not say for sure! But as you stated in the first part of this response "new bolts" I don't think its needed but I would have the rod journal diameter checked. Also I don't know what rpm you are spinning or how long those bolts have been in use. Better safe than sorry. IMO

  10. #8
    Senior Member jdekruyf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Artesia, CA
    Posts
    688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    Break-away is what it takes to loosen the bolt. If you stepped up to 95 to get any response from the bolt on a tighten up then I would say it was over torqued OR a thread locker was used? I did not assemble or was there at the time so I can not say for sure! But as you stated in the first part of this response "new bolts" I don't think its needed but I would have the rod journal diameter checked. Also I don't know what rpm you are spinning or how long those bolts have been in use. Better safe than sorry. IMO
    I was under the impression that breakaway is the force required to "break" the head loose, going in the same direction that was originally applied or basically the torque point that it will restart the fastener going in a tightening direction. I understand that this would also be greater than the original torque number as well.

    I stepped up to 95 and got a click and did not get any response as I did not want to take a chance in over tightening the bolt and stretching it further.

    Just thought i'd ask on here just to double check because that number seemed high but maybe the amount of oil they used played a part in getting the right stretch with that torque number.

    I'll be sure to go over the stretch upon re-assembly using oil and make sure they are within spec. The bolts only have about an hour of actual run time and 30 minutes or so of idling on the trailer and the run time the day I bought the engine...one full 2 day river trip and the other two trips were cut short after about 20 minutes of run time. Engine has spun up to 68-6900 rpm.

  11. #9
    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Port Richey, FL
    Posts
    16,861

    Default

    95 is too much.

    75 about right with moly lube.
    If For Some Reason I Do Something Worthy Of Recognition. God Provided The Ability And Deserves The Credit.


    QE 439 Twin Turbo

  12. #10
    It's what we do BDMarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    El Monte
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Not something you want to fail. If there is any question, replace them.
    http://www.performanceboats.com//signaturepics/sigpic837_1.gif
    B & D Marine Performance
    El Monte, Ca.

  13. #11
    It's what we do BDMarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    El Monte
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    If he hasn't already pulled them all. If he has even a couple rods untouched, he could still get a stretched measurement and compare it to a the free length.
    He could use a standard bolt stretch gauge if he measures the stretched length and the free length on bolt at a time.
    True. My problem is that the 2000 bolts in Eagle rods are not consistent in length. So if he can only checks a couple, those couple are the only ones I would trust. I have seen them vary as much as .007
    http://www.performanceboats.com//signaturepics/sigpic837_1.gif
    B & D Marine Performance
    El Monte, Ca.

  14. #12
    Senior Member jdekruyf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Artesia, CA
    Posts
    688

    Default

    The more research I do, it seems there have been quite a few cases of needing to torque these specifc bolts upwards of 90 ft lbs to get the desired stretch using oil.

    What would you guys do in my shoes? Re-assemble with oil and check the stretch and call it good or buy new and chart the stretch myself off of brand new bolts? I didn't have the luxury of assembling it the first time and getting all the before and after measurements.

    Like stated earlier, these bolts only have about an hours worth of run time and a handful of hard passes and it was initially assembled by Clay Smith and torqued to 95 lbs per the build sheet, and in my eyes, Clay Smith is a VERY reputable shop and i'd trust them.

  15. #13
    It's what we do BDMarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    El Monte
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BDMarine View Post
    Not something you want to fail. If there is any question, replace them.
    <-- This

    Start fresh, use the ARP lube, and stretch to specs.
    http://www.performanceboats.com//signaturepics/sigpic837_1.gif
    B & D Marine Performance
    El Monte, Ca.

  16. #14
    gn7
    gn7 is offline
    Senior Member gn7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    25,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BDMarine View Post
    True. My problem is that the 2000 bolts in Eagle rods are not consistent in length. So if he can only checks a couple, those couple are the only ones I would trust. I have seen them vary as much as .007
    I wasn't suggesting he compare bolts to each other, but the individual bolt's installed stretch length to its free length, of each bolt as he removed them.
    What I was getting at is that if they torqued all the bolts to 95, and he was able to check 1/2 of them and they didn't take a set from being over torqued, then it stands to reason none of them were over torqued.

    He measures a torqued bolt at 2.006 and its free length is 2.000, odds are it wasn't over torqued. If its free length is only .002 shorter, it most likely took a set from over torqueing and its junk. Odds of over stretching only 4 or 5 bolts all at the same torque is pretty slim.

    It is possible to determine if a bolt has been pulled past its yield by comparing stretch to torque required as you install them.

    If it hits stretch length before it gets near the proper torque, the bolt is toast.

    I just recently bought a SnapOn torque angle wrench and it makes it nice in qualifying a bolt. If you pull it to the proper angle without the required force, its JUNK.
    Waaaay faster than a stretch gauge.

    Its all really mute. He should probably replace them anyway.



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
    Last edited by gn7; 01-08-2014 at 12:31 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Digg This Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95