Questions about a gen5 454
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Questions about a gen5 454

  1. #1
    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Default Questions about a gen5 454

    I am looking at a complete, supposedly running gen 5 454, casting# 10114182, which is a 4 bolt block, with ,i am sure, cast internals. The engine is complete from throtle body to pan and fan to flex plate, including wireing harness and computer.
    I am looking at this engine, to hopefully put in the boat, just to get back on the water for this season. The guy is wanting $480 and i am sure i can get it for $400. I was looking at the same engine, at my local junk yard, for $800+ tax.They are wanting $1000+ tax for a mark iv, at the junk yard!
    I have a few questions about the difference between the mark IV and the gen5 engines.
    I know the gen 5 has no fuel pump boss and i would have to run an electric fuel pump.

    My main concerns are the oil pan and intake manifold/ carberator.
    Would it be safe to run the stock oil pan or is it imperative to run a bigger oil pan.

    Is there a difrence in intake manifold fitment, between mark iv and gen 5?
    If not, how would a tunnel ram w/ two 600cfms work on a bone stock 454 truck engine? If not so good what might a good intake and carb be for a stock 454?

    Are the front and rear bolt patterns the same between the mark iv and gen5? would my mark iv engine plates, fit the gen5?

    Any thing else I need think about to just stick the engine in the boat and run it?
    Last edited by holorinhal; 02-14-2014 at 08:15 PM.

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  3. #2
    gn7
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    Front and rear bolt patterns are the same
    The manifold will fit, but I think the T ram will run like shit with the stock cam. A dual plane from E bay and one of your 600s will probably work better.
    The oil pan could work, but you might see a pressure drop when you de-accel.

    You will need the balancer and flex plate from the Gen5



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    Last edited by gn7; 02-14-2014 at 08:14 PM.

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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holorinhal View Post
    I am looking at a complete, supposedly running gen 5 454.
    I am looking at this engine, to hopefully put in the boat, just to get back on the water for this season. The guy is wanting $480 and i am sure i can get it for $400. I was looking at the same engine, at my local junk yard, for $800+ tax.
    I have a few questions about the difference between the mark IV and the gen5 engines.
    I know the gen 5 has no fuel pump boss and i would have to run an electric fuel pump.

    My main concerns are the oil pan and intake manifold/ carberator.
    Would it be safe to run the stock oil pan or is it imperative to run a bigger oil pan.

    Is there a difrence in intake manifold fitment, between mark iv and gen 5?
    If not, how would a tunnel ram w/ two 600cfms work on a bone stock 454 truck engine? If not so good what might a good intake and carb be for a stock 454?

    Are the front and rear bolt patterns the same between the mark iv and gen5? would my mark iv engine plates, fit the gen5?

    Any thing else I need think about to just stick the engine in the boat and run it?
    Are you certain it's a Gen 5 and not a Gen 6? Gen 6 is more desirable as far as something you might possibly want to build later, in that improvements were made to make it more compatible with aftermarket and early heads.

    The engine will bolt in place. I just sold a Dooley pan for a Gen 5/6, have a couple of others. You might get away with the stock pan for just mild cruising. Wouldn't be my first choice since there is not much in the way of oil control.

    The intake manifold fit is the same as well. I guess it's hard to spend money on pan and intake for something that is just "temporary". My first boat years ago I put a couple of cheap engines into it after I had wounded my good 427, ran a 402 until it blew and then some cheapy 454. Looking back I guess they were better than sitting home.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    Are you certain it's a Gen 5 and not a Gen 6? Gen 6 is more desirable as far as something you might possibly want to build later, in that improvements were made to make it more compatible with aftermarket and early heads.

    The engine will bolt in place. I just sold a Dooley pan for a Gen 5/6, have a couple of others. You might get away with the stock pan for just mild cruising. Wouldn't be my first choice since there is not much in the way of oil control.

    The intake manifold fit is the same as well. I guess it's hard to spend money on pan and intake for something that is just "temporary". My first boat years ago I put a couple of cheap engines into it after I had wounded my good 427, ran a 402 until it blew and then some cheapy 454. Looking back I guess they were better than sitting home.
    Barry, the casting numbers say it is a 4 bolt gen 5 block. I have physicly looked at the engine and there is no provision for a fuel pump.

    My only thinking is that this would get me on the water , relatively inexpensivly, untill I can get my engine put back together, as long as I dont have to put alot of coin into an intake/carb and pan.
    I have not come accross any gen 6 and not many mark iv's that they dont want a lot of money for.

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

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    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Front and rear bolt patterns are the same
    The manifold will fit, but I think the T ram will run like shit with the stock cam. A dual plane from E bay and one of your 600s will probably work better.
    The oil pan could work, but you might see a pressure drop when you de-accel.

    You will need the balancer and flex plate from the Gen5
    Bob, the balancer and flex plate are still on the engine.

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

    18' Advantage http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-...k-project.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by holorinhal View Post
    Barry, the casting numbers say it is a 4 bolt gen 5 block. I have physicly looked at the engine and there is no provision for a fuel pump.

    My only thinking is that this would get me on the water , relatively inexpensivly, untill I can get my engine put back together, as long as I dont have to put alot of coin into an intake/carb and pan.
    I have not come accross any gen 6 and not many mark iv's that they dont want a lot of money for.
    Know what, you could try it with your tunnel ram and easy enough to swap manifold in the boat if you had to?

  9. #7
    gn7
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    Production Gen 6s don't have a fuel pump boss either. Only Gen 6 over the counter service replacement and crate engines have fuel pump bosses.
    The easiest way to tell a production 5 from a 6 is the timing cover. 5s have 10 bolt covers and are steel, 6s are plastic, and have 6 bolts

    I find it funny that the 5 gets all poo pooed because of a fuel pump boss, even from people that don't run a mechanical pump, and for the head decks, even though virtually all after market heads seal just fine. Seems like the 5s are a steal if those are the biggest reasons for trash talking them compared to a 6



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    Last edited by gn7; 02-14-2014 at 08:44 PM.

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    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Production Gen 6s don't have a fuel pump boss either. Only Gen 6 over the counter service replacement and crate engines have fuel pump bosses.
    The easiest way to tell a production 5 from a 6 is the timing cover. 5s have 10 bolt covers and are steel, 6s are plastic, and have 6 bolts

    I find it funny that the 5 gets all poo pooed because of a fuel pump boss, even from people that don't run a mechanical pump, and for the head decks, even though virtually all after market heads seal just fine. Seems like the 5s are a steal if those are the biggest reasons for trash talking them compared to a 6
    I did not know that part about the timing covers, i will check that tomorrow.
    I also did not know the 6's did not have a provision for a fuel pump. I thought that they brought back the fuel pump boss on the gen 6.
    I did look at and write down the casting # which is 10114182. That casting number identifies the block as a 4 bolt gen 5.
    Depending on whose site you look on, it also identifies it as a tall deck, but i am sure it is a 9.8" deck block?
    is there any reason not to trust the casting numbers. engine is also out of a Suburban.
    Last edited by holorinhal; 02-14-2014 at 09:23 PM.

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

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  11. #9
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by holorinhal View Post
    I did not know that part about the timing covers, i will check that tomorrow.
    I also did not know the 6's did not have a provision for a fuel pump. I thought that they brought back the fuel pump boss on the gen 6.
    I did look at and write down the casting # which is 10114182. That casting number identifies the block as a 4 bolt gen 5.
    Depending on whose site you look on, it also identifies it as a tall deck, but i am sure it is a 9.8" deck block?
    is there any reason not to trust the casting numbers. engine is also out of a Suburban.
    They only brought the pump boss back in over the counter blocks and crate engines.
    If you know it came from a Suburban, then it is not a truck engine.


    You can also ID Gen 6 by the factory roller lifter setup in the valley, and slightly revised deck water ports.
    This is a factory roller Gen 6 with no pump boss.
    Ignore the monkey sounds

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    Last edited by gn7; 02-14-2014 at 10:14 PM.

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Production Gen 6s don't have a fuel pump boss either. Only Gen 6 over the counter service replacement and crate engines have fuel pump bosses.
    Another exception to that is Gen 6 tall deck blocks, I put one together a few years back(and have photos). It also has the oil port on the block above the timing cover.

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    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Well i am thinking, if i can get it for $400 or less, i am going to go ahead and pick the thing up, if not for nothing more than a spare rebuildable core.
    Rare to find a big block, of any generation, around here for that price.
    Like I said the wrecking yard is wanting $800 plus tax for the same exact engine.

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

    18' Advantage http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-...k-project.html

  14. #12
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    Another exception to that is Gen 6 tall deck blocks, I put one together a few years back(and have photos). It also has the oil port on the block above the timing cover.
    ALL truck blocks have the oil port above the timing cover, including the MKIV

    This is a 427 MKIV truck. Its the easiest way to spot a truck block.




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    Default Dual plane air gap intake for a stocker

    The gen 5 & 6 use a different intake gasket which are held in place by the head gaskets and notched for the valley tray,with no exhaust port cut into it for the thermostat choke. The automotive head gaskets runs too hot and will have to be changed to marine type..use only gen 5/6 head gaskets... even if you run after market heads..The mark 5&6 share the same oil pan but won' t work on a 4. Good idea to replace the auto pan to a larger marine pan...Gen 6 heads have 7/16 hole in the front of the castings, as the 4 uses 3/8 and I think the 5 has two 7/16 and one 3/8 so you might have to drill any accessory brackets that mount to the heads.

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    Senior Member holorinhal's Avatar
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    Aside from the camshaft and crankshaft, are there any diffrences between the internals of a mark iv, gen5 and gen6?

    I'm not here for a long time, I'm just here for a good time!
    If your not on the edge.......your taking up too much room......Drive it like you stole it!

    73 KONA Restoration http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=10678
    '81 Spectra 20 Facelift http://www.performanceboats.com/user...-facelift.html

    18' Advantage http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-...k-project.html

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