WTF Crossfire ignition
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WTF Crossfire ignition

  1. #1
    Senior Member OLD MAN ON THE LAKE's Avatar
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    Default WTF Crossfire ignition

    496 10.2 /1 with second hand 990s
    Three hours on the engine
    Total timing 32. Pistons look good.
    Any ideas how this happened?
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  3. #2
    gn7
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    Yeah, you blew a head gasket. It had to run like shit while that was happening. It doesn't take long, but longer on a iron head than a alum.
    I'd find it hard to believe that the block isn't in need some machining. If you don't, it can very well happen again, FAST!

    Cause?
    No machining on the block and heads that needed it
    Inferior machining
    Cheap rebuilder gasket
    Detonation due to tune. 10.2 to 1 with iron heads and the load of a boat requires the tune to be pretty spot on.



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    Last edited by gn7; 05-04-2014 at 08:50 AM.

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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Things I would look at are dome volume of pistons, verify TDC and timing pointer, and quality of fuel, along with engine temperature. The block doesn't show any damage?

    I had someone do that to one of my street engines one time, but they admitted pulling a trailer through the desert at speeds up to 120 mph, noticing the engine temperature getting "warm", but continuing to run. I also suspect they might have been messing with ignition timing as they used to do crazy stuff with the 3/4 ton Suburban the engine was in.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member OLD MAN ON THE LAKE's Avatar
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    The engine never went past 180 and was only at that for maybe 30 sec.
    Not sure of the machining
    8523pti on the gasket
    20 cc dome Volume
    engine was very fat with 93/95 jets then went to 85/88 s in a 830 Holley plugs never appeared lean.
    The timing indicated 28 then I bumped it to 32
    Never got over 5200
    cam Flat Hyd 306/240/544 112 sep. Square
    Log exhaust
    I will check the block

    Another pleasure boat. I feel like a heroin addict.
    Time for Alum. Heads. Any suggestions?

    Thanks for the help guys
    Tom
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    Last edited by OLD MAN ON THE LAKE; 05-04-2014 at 09:56 AM.

  7. #5
    gn7
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    I pretty much recognized the gasket from the picture. Read the description.

    LINK Fel-Pro 8523PT-1 Fel-Pro Cylinder Head Gaskets - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

    LINK http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-8523PT-1/

    Compared to:
    LINK http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fe...make/chevrolet

    There is a reason the cost twice as much.
    It could have been worse. It could have been a $15.00 8180 PT2

    Less than perfect decking, at that compression, with that gasket is certain failure. You get a machinist pushing the fly cutter on too much angle and it leaves a low area right down the center of the head and or block.

    With that compression, and iron heads, you have to give the engine a fighting chance by having everything PERFECT.
    Tune, machining, and materials. It didn't take much to blow that particular gasket out between the cylinders.



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    Last edited by gn7; 05-04-2014 at 10:19 AM.

  8. #6
    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    I pretty much recognized the gasket from the picture. Read the description.

    LINK Fel-Pro 8523PT-1 Fel-Pro Cylinder Head Gaskets - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

    LINK http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-8523PT-1/

    Compared to:
    LINK http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fe...make/chevrolet

    There is a reason the cost twice as much.
    It could have been worse. It could have been a $15.00 8180 PT2

    Less than perfect decking, at that compression, with that gasket is certain failure. You get a machinist pushing the fly cutter on too much angle and it leaves a low area right down the center of the head and or block.

    With that compression, and iron heads, you have to give the engine a fighting chance by having everything PERFECT.
    Tune, machining, and materials. It didn't take much to blow that particular gasket out between the cylinders.
    Gotta go with Bob on this one, especially looking at the lack of gasket imprint on the other chamber on the right.
    In fact, the gasket imprint in the damaged area doesn't really look that bad considering the ditch that it cut.
    Almost as if it was a previously repair that failed?
    Tommy
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  9. #7
    steelcomp was here
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    Pig fat and timing only at 32? My guess is your egt's were sky high. That didn't help the situation at all.

  10. #8
    gn7
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    You could be looking at the effects of massive EGR. A shit load of exhaust gases in the intake from the adjoining cylinders can tend to make the mixture go dead fat. The smoldering mess from those 2 cylinders don't offer much in the way of react able air.



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    Last edited by gn7; 05-05-2014 at 04:06 PM.

  11. #9
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD MAN ON THE LAKE View Post
    496 10.2 /1 with second hand 990s
    Three hours on the engine
    Total timing 32. Pistons look good.
    Any ideas how this happened?
    Did you clean the quench pad on that one chamber, or did it come off the engine like that?

  12. #10
    Platinum Member BigSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD MAN ON THE LAKE View Post
    The engine never went past 180 and was only at that for maybe 30 sec.
    Not sure of the machining
    8523pti on the gasket
    20 cc dome Volume
    engine was very fat with 93/95 jets then went to 85/88 s in a 830 Holley plugs never appeared lean.
    The timing indicated 28 then I bumped it to 32
    Never got over 5200
    cam Flat Hyd 306/240/544 112 sep. Square
    Log exhaust
    I will check the block

    Another pleasure boat. I feel like a heroin addict.
    Time for Alum. Heads. Any suggestions?

    Thanks for the help guys
    Tom
    My suggestions
    Listen what Bob is pointing out.
    Decision time,
    I would give Barry 001 a call and ask for a little help sorting it out.
    Make a appointment to bring it over.

    Barry, has a machinist eye for detail, let him look it over.
    Then he can tell you the good and the bad news.

    The newbie Scott Foxwell is in the head business I would go with a proven product and use Steel comp
    Last edited by BigSteve; 05-05-2014 at 06:11 PM.
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  13. #11
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSteve View Post
    My suggestions
    Listen what Bob is pointing out.
    Decision time,
    I would give Barry 001 a call and ask for a little help sorting it out.
    Make a appointment to bring it over.

    Barry, has a machinist eye for detail, let him look it over.
    Then he can tell you the good and the bad news.

    The newbie Scott Foxwell is in the head business I would go with a proven product and use Steel comp

  14. #12
    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott foxwell View Post
    Pig fat and timing only at 32? My guess is your egt's were sky high. That didn't help the situation at all.
    Very good Scott Foxwell. Flame travel!!!!!

  15. #13
    Senior Member OLD MAN ON THE LAKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott foxwell View Post
    Did you clean the quench pad on that one chamber, or did it come off the engine like that?

    Nothing was cleaned. First order of business is to determine the condition of the block.
    If I get lucky then it is Aluminum head time. That is why I was reaching out for suggestions.
    If I am unlucky then it is rebuild time.
    My objective was and is a pump gas 496 that will be turn key low drama. 6000 rpm with low end and midrange power.
    Thanks guys for contributing to the thread.

  16. #14
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    What's the other side look like? I saw one at a buddy shop had the coolant restricted on one side, about the time the temp gauge went 190 it was already loosing power. It torched the head as bad as that one and the block too. The other side looked just like a motor with less that 2 hrs.
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