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Blowers

  1. #1
    '77 Hondo GT rampage's Avatar
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    Default Blowers

    Can u put a blower on a 12.5 cr, 468 bbc, 680-690 lift 272-278 [email protected], dart pro 1 310cc fully ported heads, 2 bolt main studed? Thanks..
    Last edited by rampage; 11-03-2008 at 05:44 PM.

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    adjones419 Wet-n-Wild's Avatar
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    A blower on gas won't like that compression ratio at all. A blower on alcohol will like it better, but it won't like that 2 bolt block. Invest in a new set of pistons, put some carburetors on top of the blower on gas, and you'd be alright I think.
    Adam
    Hallett 210

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    No Sandbar To Far sanger rat's Avatar
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    If you can get E-85 in your area it'll work.
    Quote Originally Posted by One More Year View Post
    The only blab's I will even be a part of is just when it is me they are talking about. Aaaah yes I can see a few good looking shiny tall deck motors on the beach, with barely enough fuel to get back to the launch saying, "Holy crap how fast you think that Daytona was going man? That's like the 20th time he's gone by today?"

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    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    Blower motors are really different animals. You could bolt it on, but you would need to underdrive the blower, and/or use very high octane gas (118?). You may not have a good combo for a blower... sorry

  7. #5
    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    I'm just learning about this stuff right now. Like Adam said, alcohol would be a better choice. You could use a thicker head gasket (Fel-Pro MLS 1071-1) and drop CR a bit. Put a total seal top ring in it and do a 4 bolt conversion, you might be OK if you don't get crazy on over drive. I'm guessing though if it has a 2 bolt block, the crank is likely cast. If so, won't be long for it to push the crank out!!
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

  8. #6
    '77 Hondo GT rampage's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Forged crank, total seal rings, eagle rods, machine shop didnet have 4 bolt at time of build. Proable should drop to 8.1 cr get a 4 bolt,do it right no cheap way out. Thanks for the input.

  9. #7
    "It's HONDO, honey" Kyle's Avatar
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    my .02 total seal rings and blowers are dangerous. 2 bolt block unfortunatly, nope, it'll try and drop the crank or better put 4 is obviously stronger than 2, thus more peace of mind.
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  10. #8
    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    ......my .02 total seal rings and blowers are dangerous..
    So, why do you not like total seal rings with blowers. I've had 2 big name engine builders recommend them for blown alcohol. Apparently helps keep the oil clean from alcohol dilution... Again, I'm new to the blown stuff so looking for info.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

  11. #9
    adjones419 Wet-n-Wild's Avatar
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    The Akerly and Childs HTD rings are the best in the business for a serious blown alcohol application.

    Akerly and Childs
    Adam
    Hallett 210

  12. #10
    "It's HONDO, honey" Kyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David 519 View Post
    So, why do you not like total seal rings with blowers. I've had 2 big name engine builders recommend them for blown alcohol. Apparently helps keep the oil clean from alcohol dilution... Again, I'm new to the blown stuff so looking for info.
    I might be attacked here ........ .02.........

    If your running a small blower and no port nozels then your probably fine. I piston ring gap allows a "little bit of blowby" but I understand thinning the oil. But look at it like this say you build a huge motor, big blower, 12-71 and up, alto of overdrive; 23% and up..... the ring gap keeps you from poping the heads off the motor lol. Total seal rings are just that 100% compression going up, and vacumn in a sense going down. You have taking the load off of the piston as a whole and now its an pulling and pushing on the ring lands. I've used total seal rings and had less then expected results on a compression motor. Total seal rings if you think you still have the same amount of ring land space, so by using total seal not only do you seal (total seal) the full bore but you loss ring thickness to get the smaller one to bridge the gap. So if motors can sieze rings from swelling, and crack them in the land, whats to say a total seal will be a better fit while it is smaller, and seals up a very small, but valuable, place of insurance.

    To explain, I don't know what every one's idea of these infamous "blowers and kits" but go to the NHRA and see what all the Big guys run, with 14-71, and PSI's, 30% and greater overdrive. They'll be running a .030 to .050 end gap! Thats fact. For an 8-71 probably be fine, not to say I wouldn't worry but don't get the idea to crank up the overdrives because remember where your new focal point of stress is.

    Wet-N-Wild ring reference was exact, Amen. Very good set don't distort from a lot of boost
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  13. #11
    21 Daytona Outlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    I might be attacked here ........ .02.........

    If your running a small blower and no port nozels then your probably fine. I piston ring gap allows a "little bit of blowby" but I understand thinning the oil. But look at it like this say you build a huge motor, big blower, 12-71 and up, alto of overdrive; 23% and up..... the ring gap keeps you from poping the heads off the motor lol. Total seal rings are just that 100% compression going up, and vacumn in a sense going down. You have taking the load off of the piston as a whole and now its an pulling and pushing on the ring lands. I've used total seal rings and had less then expected results on a compression motor. Total seal rings if you think you still have the same amount of ring land space, so by using total seal not only do you seal (total seal) the full bore but you loss ring thickness to get the smaller one to bridge the gap. So if motors can sieze rings from swelling, and crack them in the land, whats to say a total seal will be a better fit while it is smaller, and seals up a very small, but valuable, place of insurance.

    To explain, I don't know what every one's idea of these infamous "blowers and kits" but go to the NHRA and see what all the Big guys run, with 14-71, and PSI's, 30% and greater overdrive. They'll be running a .030 to .050 end gap! Thats fact. For an 8-71 probably be fine, not to say I wouldn't worry but don't get the idea to crank up the overdrives because remember where your new focal point of stress is.

    Wet-N-Wild ring reference was exact, Amen. Very good set don't distort from a lot of boost

    can you rewrite this in english???I was lost at ring gap keeps you from poping the heads off the motor WTF
    #55

  14. #12
    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    I might be attacked here ........ .02.........

    If your running a small blower and no port nozels then your probably fine. I piston ring gap allows a "little bit of blowby" but I understand thinning the oil. But look at it like this say you build a huge motor, big blower, 12-71 and up, alto of overdrive; 23% and up..... the ring gap keeps you from poping the heads off the motor lol. Total seal rings are just that 100% compression going up, and vacumn in a sense going down. You have taking the load off of the piston as a whole and now its an pulling and pushing on the ring lands. I've used total seal rings and had less then expected results on a compression motor. Total seal rings if you think you still have the same amount of ring land space, so by using total seal not only do you seal (total seal) the full bore but you loss ring thickness to get the smaller one to bridge the gap. So if motors can sieze rings from swelling, and crack them in the land, whats to say a total seal will be a better fit while it is smaller, and seals up a very small, but valuable, place of insurance.

    To explain, I don't know what every one's idea of these infamous "blowers and kits" but go to the NHRA and see what all the Big guys run, with 14-71, and PSI's, 30% and greater overdrive. They'll be running a .030 to .050 end gap! Thats fact. For an 8-71 probably be fine, not to say I wouldn't worry but don't get the idea to crank up the overdrives because remember where your new focal point of stress is.

    Wet-N-Wild ring reference was exact, Amen. Very good set don't distort from a lot of boost
    I think I followed your ideas. In any engine, you set your ring end gap based on the idea that you want the gap at 0 under max load. Due to the many variables in a racing engine, most end up bigger than that because you don't want them to butt and pull a ring land. Otherwise ANY blowby is a loss of power at the crankshaft (physics, not opinion). The big guys in NHRA use a conventional style ring and set them wide but they're trying to make 3000 HP. We are trying to make half that, and do it reliably.
    You make a good point about available ring land and thinner rings. We are talking to Total Seal about the application right now. We are talking about using a 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 ring package. If the top ring is .050 thick, it leaves .0125 for the seal. We think it's enough top ring to have decent integrity at the HP range we're looking for. Lot's of big HP NA motors use a .043" top ring and they live.
    If this was a max effort deal, we'd probably use the rings Adam suggested. We may still as we are still settling on piston design. The blown alcohol engine I used last race and will run at Phoenix used total seal rings. The engine had virtually no oil/vapor out the burn down tubes... I like that. One way or another, I've got to make a piston decision fairly soon.
    Thanks for the input.
    -dcp
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    I might be attacked here ........ .02.........

    If your running a small blower and no port nozels then your probably fine. I piston ring gap allows a "little bit of blowby" but I understand thinning the oil. But look at it like this say you build a huge motor, big blower, 12-71 and up, alto of overdrive; 23% and up..... the ring gap keeps you from poping the heads off the motor lol. Total seal rings are just that 100% compression going up, and vacumn in a sense going down. You have taking the load off of the piston as a whole and now its an pulling and pushing on the ring lands. I've used total seal rings and had less then expected results on a compression motor. Total seal rings if you think you still have the same amount of ring land space, so by using total seal not only do you seal (total seal) the full bore but you loss ring thickness to get the smaller one to bridge the gap. So if motors can sieze rings from swelling, and crack them in the land, whats to say a total seal will be a better fit while it is smaller, and seals up a very small, but valuable, place of insurance.

    To explain, I don't know what every one's idea of these infamous "blowers and kits" but go to the NHRA and see what all the Big guys run, with 14-71, and PSI's, 30% and greater overdrive. They'll be running a .030 to .050 end gap! Thats fact. For an 8-71 probably be fine, not to say I wouldn't worry but don't get the idea to crank up the overdrives because remember where your new focal point of stress is.

    Wet-N-Wild ring reference was exact, Amen. Very good set don't distort from a lot of boost
    Total seal makes a conventional plasma moly ring,100% seal is with their gapless rings I have used gapless rings in plenty of blower motors without any issues so far in the past 10 years

  16. #14
    "It's HONDO, honey" Kyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    can you rewrite this in english???I was lost at ring gap keeps you from poping the heads off the motor WTF
    lol. Alright in a sense, when you have a blower motor being built many different builders have a specific ring gap in mind, heat, overdrive, fuel choice. And yes I understand that a ring gap's intent is based upon your application and your trying to not have the rings expand to the point where they touch.

    I know guys that use total seal, not gonna lie, and love them. I like a hard iron ductile ring.

    Now in argueing "reasoning" about total seal. Look at the name "total seal" no ring gap, yes I knoe how they interlock but work with me. So if you have a 100% seal on the top ring, and yet it is thinner than conventioal rings, in theory ALL of the compression would be supported by the top ring. Heat, copression, fuel, load all on one ring.
    Where as a top ring and 2nd ring with a gap allow pressure to be be ditributed what the first squeeze through the ring gap to the second ring.

    Again .02, not gonna say anything degrading, total seal is in business because obviously there product works and sells because of it. King bearings vs speed pro vs clevite
    ___________________________________________
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